kickycan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:27 pm
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

I'd love to hear you answer this question H2O man or Yankee:
Quote:

Quote:
So tell me what you would do for a child who developes diabetes whose mother waits tables all day and makes too much to qualify for medicaid, but has to use her wages for shelter and food for her family and can't afford insulin?


Can either of you PLEASE answer this question?


Why would you expect a sensible answer from that idiot? This question has more than three words in it, therefore he can only look at it like a dog that's just been shown a card trick. Then after much thought (or what passes for thought in that bag of mush that he uses for a brain), eventually he can look for some simple solution on some idiotic conservative douche bag website that doesn't address this situation, but is short enough that a twelve-year old could understand it. Then he can regurgitate that, and insult anyone who disagrees with him by calling them a part of the "dumbmasses," --incidentally, this is the biggest word he knows, although it is not technically a word, and he uses it frequently to show what a smart feller he is.

Oh I see he's already done all that. Carry on.
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:28 pm
@mysteryman,
Well, it would have been less stereotypical (in terms of violent, gun-toting Americans) in the rest of the world's eyes- so yeah- less shameful in the that way.
And I don't think he'd have had the chance to strangle or bludgeon John Lennon to death in front of the Dakota before anyone could step in and save his life. The split second encounter that ended with John Lennon dead was possible because Hinckley had a gun.

You know - you can love your country and admit that there are problems.
In fact it's better to admit there are problems if you really love your country - that's the only way the problems will get solved. Turning a blind eye or trying to deny ongoing issues is nothing but a recipe for deterioration.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:31 pm
@aidan,
Excuse me, where have I ever denied that there are problems in the US.

But you seem to be saying that since Hinckley used a gun, that makes it even worse then if he had used any other type of weapon.

Dead is dead, no matter how it happens.

Now, if the murder had been committed in another country, would that make it less shameful, or somehow less serious then it is?
aidan
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:33 pm
@kickycan,
Kicky - I'm just trying to find out what sort of person lives under the skin and/or label of these specific 'Americans'.
Yankee
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:36 pm
@aidan,
Quote:
And if their parent can't - or even just won't? What would you tell that child?


What if...what if.....what if.....

If the parent can't, there are several charitable organizations they can go to for help.

There are numerous options available before you get to taxpayers.
aidan
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:38 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
Now, if the murder had been committed in another country, would that make it less shameful

Yes, to me, as an American. It wouldn't have been less of a shame to me - but the rest of the world wouldn't have identified me with one more gunmad violent murderer.

You know mysteryman - when I told people abroad that my parents didn't drink and didn't own any guns even though I'm American - they asked if I was AMISH?!
Do you even have a clue as to what sort of reputation Americans have in the rest of the world?
And, we, as Americans, have to take responsibility for our reputation in the rest of the world.

It makes me feel ashamed as an American to have to tell people that we don't provide healthcare for sick children who have parents who can't afford to pay.
Yankee
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:39 pm
@aidan,
If you are referring to me, I am the type of person who understands personal responsibility. I am the type of person who lives within my means. I am the type of person who worked hard for everything I have.

0 Replies
 
Yankee
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:40 pm
@aidan,
Quote:
It makes me feel ashamed as an American to have to tell people that we don't provide healthcare for sick children who have parents who can't afford to pay.


How much have you given to charity this year as a percentage of your income?
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:42 pm
@Yankee,
Quote:
If the parent can't, there are several charitable organizations they can go to for help.

Oh for goodness sake- what's the difference?
Will you fund the charity that's supposed to magically come up with doctors and medicines that can only be accessed for children by parents who know about them?
And if you'll give money to a charity - why/how is that different than paying a tax?
Yes, it's a choice instead of a mandate - okay...but practically - where is the money coming from either way?
The citizens.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:42 pm
@aidan,
Quote:
Do you even have a clue as to what sort of reputation Americans have in the rest of the world?


Since I have traveled the world, yes I do.
Americans have a good reputation, for the most part.
Our govt on the other hand...

Quote:
It makes me feel ashamed as an American to have to tell people that we don't provide healthcare for sick children who have parents who can't afford to pay.


NO child is denied healthcare.
There are programs in every state that provide free or reduced cost healthcare, there is medicare, Schip, medicaid, and other federal programs, the US public health Service operates clinics and hospitals that are free to anyone, etc.

The problem is that many people either dont know about these programs, or dont think they are eligible.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:44 pm
@Yankee,
Well Yankee - you just asked the wrong person that question.
Let's put it this way - I'm a giver. To the point that I don't give a **** how much they take out of my check to make sure that ALL children have healthcare- because it'd most probably be less than what I give on my own.

And in fact, I am paying taxes to provide socialized medicine to all the people in the country I live in as we speak- and I have absolutely no problem with it.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:48 pm
@aidan,
Quote:
To the point that I don't give a **** how much they take out of my check to make sure that ALL children have healthcare.


So you would allow the govt to take 99% of your check, and not leaving you enough to pay your own bills?
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:48 pm
@mysteryman,
They wouldn't do that. That'd be a little counterproductive for a socialist governement to do, now wouldn't it?
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:49 pm
@aidan,
Have I ever said our govt was socialist, or even leaning that way?

NO, I have not.
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:51 pm
@aidan,
Quote:
And if you'll give money to a charity - why/how is that different than paying a tax?
Yes, it's a choice instead of a mandate - okay...but practically - where is the money coming from either way?
The citizens.


That is called FREEDOM.

I like freedom. I can choose who and which charity I want to help, just as you may do.

So you answered your own question.

Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 01:52 pm
@aidan,
Quote:
To the point that I don't give a **** how much they take out of my check to make sure that ALL children have healthcare- because it'd most probably be less than what I give on my own.


I doubt that.

So again, as a percentage of your salary, how much have you given to charity this year?
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 02:00 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:

NO child is denied healthcare.
There are programs in every state that provide free or reduced cost healthcare, there is medicare, Schip, medicaid, and other federal programs, the US public health Service operates clinics and hospitals that are free to anyone, etc.

Ideally, this is true.
Quote:

The problem is that many people either dont know about these programs, or dont think they are eligible.

Yes, that's part of the problem - another part of the problem is that the funds for children were used to cover unemployed family members (I remember reading somewhere - I'll try to find it) so that in some states - I remember Georgia specifically - the funding has dried up.
But thank god for Obama:
Quote:

Why are so many children in the United States without health insurance? "Unlike many other developed countries, most health insurance in the U.S. is based on employer-provided health insurance. Consequently, if a child's parent loses a job, the child loses health insurance," says O'Hare. "In addition, more and more jobs, particularly low-paying jobs, do not offer health insurance at all." With health care costs rising and revenues declining, fewer employers can afford to offer health insurance. In addition, according to the Institute of Medicine, manufacturing jobs that traditionally provided health insurance have declined while service industry jobs that are typically less likely to provide full coverage are on the rise. Recent data from the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation illustrate the combined effects of rising unemployment and falling employer-sponsored health coverage: The number of people covered by employer-sponsored insurance decreased by 8.9 million from 2007 to 2009, often leaving their children and spouses without coverage.3

Economic Strains on Public Health Care

State governments, businesses, and families are all under financial strain and affected by the economic recession. As unemployment continues to rise, so too does the demand for the protections offered by the social safety net. But state-sponsored public services including health care have already been strained by budget shortfalls occurring before the economic crisis. The number of children covered by Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), the two major public health care systems in the United States, increased by 954,000 between 2006 and 2007. As of 2008, SCHIP alone provided coverage to 7 million children. Between 2007 and 2009, the number of people enrolled in Medicaid and SCHIP increased by 3.6 million.

Recently, President Obama reauthorized SCHIP to provide more funding to states and expanded the reach of SCHIP to reach an additional 4 million children in need. He also lifted the ban prohibiting states from providing insurance to legal immigrant children. Previously, the program was only eligible to legal immigrants after living in the United States for five years. According to the Congressional Budget Office, 1.8 million children currently enrolled in SCHIP would have lost coverage without the new funding. The additional federal SCHIP funding will allow states to cover children in families earning up to 300 percent of the federal poverty level.
But social safety-net programs are not enough to ensure good health and provide the full range of needed care, according to the Institute of Medicine.

but the truth of the matter remains
:
Although the expanded coverage is welcome and needed, it will not be enough to meet the needs of uninsured U.S. children. According to O'Hare, "[It] will help, but there are still millions of children without health insurance, and millions more without adequate health insurance."
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 02:04 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
Have I ever said our govt was socialist, or even leaning that way?

NO, I have not.

Sorry - I guess it was H2O man - and he said fascist.

But I live in a more socialist society than the US at this point-so its taxes to that sort of government (that cover a nationalized health service) so those are the taxes that I'm speaking of paying.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 02:06 pm
@Yankee,

Quote:
So again, as a percentage of your salary, how much have you given to charity this year?

I don't know - I have to have my taxes itemized by October 1st.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 02:06 pm
@aidan,
But its the US we are talking about, not other countries.
 

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