JPB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 04:13 pm
Sorry for the large copy/paste but this is just some snippets of a very long article that goes into much greater detail on the discussion points.

Quote:
Commentary
By Arthur Caplan, Ph.D
msnbc.com contributor
updated 59 minutes ago


Arthur Caplan, Ph.D.
• E-mail

It can be hard to separate the fact from the fiction of the myriad claims and questions separating health care reform. Some charges " that reform means the end of private insurance " are quite simply bogus. Other worries " that more insured Americans could worsen doctor shortages " are more justified.

As President Barack Obama’s health care reform plan faces a possible delay from opponents including Republicans, some conservative Democrats, health insurers and many pharmaceutical companies " it’s time to sort out the scare tactics from reality.

Claim: If millions of Americans become newly insured, there won’t be enough doctors and nurses to handle them.

Reality check: This truly is a problem but it's coming anyway. If current trends continue, the shortage of primary care physicians will reach 40,000 in a little more than 10 years, according to the American Academy of Family Physicians. Medical schools are only graduating about half the needed number of primary care doctors.

Claim: Any public program will kill private insurance plans.

Reality check: This is not going to happen. The centrality of a public plan in Obama’s health reform push is to insure that an affordable basic package of services is available to all Americans, regardless of their health problems or health status. By pooling a large number of currently uninsured people into this plan, along with some others currently holding insurance, the cost of insurance should come down.

Claim: Health reform is moving too fast.

Reality check: Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., recently addressed this idea when he said, "President Obama was right about one thing: He said if it's not done quickly, it won't be done at all. Why did he say that? Because the longer it hangs out there, the more the American people are skeptical, anxious and even in opposition to it."

Well, the senator has a point but not for the reason he thinks. The longer reform stalls, the more the forces of the status quo can try to kill it.

Claim: Reform will result in the government rationing health care.

Reality check: This is perhaps the scariest argument about health care. Even supporters of reform acknowledge rationing could happen.

The main flaw with this criticism is that it implies we are not rationing health care now, that rationing will become a new feature in the post-reform American health care scene.


Claim: Health care reform will increase long-term federal spending on health care, thereby ballooning an already rapidly escalating deficit.

Reality check: Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf told the Senate Budget Committee in early July that the reform bills now circulating in Congress will lead to greater federal spending in future years. The Obama administration and some Democratic proponents of reform wished very hard that Elmendorf would go away. However, his caution has to be taken seriously.


Reality check: The chairman of the Republican Party Michael Steele has been comparing President Obama’s health care overhaul to socialism.

This complaint is not worth five seconds of your time. Quick " name the biggest government-run health care system in the world. If you said the Veterans Administration health system, you would be correct. Yet, instead of calling to dismantle the VA, most Republicans want to see more money spent on the system.


Claim: Health care reform will create a mind-boggling web of bureaucracy.

Reality check: Reform critics have taken to trotting out a complicated-to-follow flow chart showing the complexity of the Democratic proposal, a tactic meant to turn Americans against the reform plan. But bureaucracy is already choking health care in the United States. There could not be a more complex, inefficient, frustrating and absurd bureaucracy than the system we have now.

Claim: Health reform will empower Washington " not doctors and patients " to make health care decisions.

Reality check: No one in Congress or Washington wants to play doctor. They are too busy to have any time for prescribing medication for your allergies or to tell you what surgeon to see for your gall bladder operation. With the Obama team taking a cue from the Clinton administration, there will not be any single government-run health plan.

Claim: Health reform is the end of innovation in health care.

Reality check: It is true that innovation is in trouble in an age of cost-containment. There is no way, health reform or not, that we can continue to pay for medical research and innovation the way we have done so in the past. But the way we have done so in the past is crazy.
much more
H2O MAN
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 04:17 pm
@JPB,


Not much of a reality check there... it's more like propaganda that was spoon fed to MSNBC.
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 04:37 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Not much of a reality check there... it's more like propaganda that was spoon fed to MSNBC.


Who know? The guy has some impressive credentials and this in fact may be what he really believes.

I'll admit though the fact that he is a regular at MSNBC does taint his credibility a bit as MSNBC, CNBC, and NBC, all owned by General Electric who stands to gain billions from the Cap & Trade initiative once it passes, are rumored to be all under orders to say nothing negative about the President or any of his proposed initiatives. And while that should be taken with a grain of salt, I haven't been able to locate any recent negative reporting re the current administration from any of those groups. If true, anything they promote would be suspect. Even if not true, which is quite possible, they are all rated well left of center and it would be wise to get some kind of balance from other sources.
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 04:42 pm
@Foxfyre,


Yes, common sense dictates that you take that particular "report" with a grain of salt
and seek out additional information the corroborates or disproves the msnBS report.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 05:46 pm


Why is that Obama, some in Congress and the liberal media are the only folks pushing for Obamacare?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 06:05 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foofie wrote:

With national health care everyone can then have the pleasure of the indignity of waiting endless hours to see a doctor, or doctor's assistant, just like the poor or elderly today (in a hospital emergency room). It will be another "spreading the wealth around gambit," only this time it will be indignity, not wealth.


Really? I've never seen a doctor's assistant (unless it was an approbated physician) nor has my mother - which extends the period to 90 years.
Waiting times? Well, you just phone to the praxis in advance and know when it's your turn. And if it's urgent, it's a matter of minutes.

I don't say that your expeiences with national health care could be different - there's always an exception.


Sure it will be different. We are a heterogenous society, and not all as competent/efficient as German society tends to be, in my opinion.

You might just be adding apples to oranges.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 06:09 pm


Morning Bell: Obama Admits He’s “Not Familiar” With House Bill


President Obama's Conference Call with Liberal Bloggers:
John Amato asks Congress to work through the August recess


Download the audio.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 06:17 pm


During the call, a blogger from Maine said he kept running into an Investors Business Daily
article that claimed Section 102 of the House health legislation would outlaw private insurance.

He asked:
“Is this true? Will people be able to keep their insurance and will insurers be able to write new policies even though H.R. 3200 is passed?”

President Obama replied:
“You know, I have to say that I am not familiar with the provision you are talking about.” (quote begins at 17:10)

This is a truly disturbing admission by the President, especially considering that later in the call, Obama promises yet again:
“If you have health insurance, and you like it, and you have a doctor that you like, then you can keep it. Period.”
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 07:14 pm
in case you are wondering what fountain he drinks from...

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/07/21/morning-bell-obama-admits-hes-not-familiar-with-house-bill/

you can set a watch by this crap.

0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 07:17 pm
oh yeah, i forgot. a real shopping list of "be afraid" nonsense.


http://blog.heritage.org/category/health-care/

now if only this bunch had shown nearly this amount of concern for the health of american citizens when it came to instigating the Iraq war.

0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 07:32 pm



Obama has no clue what's included in his gargantuan health care bill because he has not read it.
He is selling it to the dumbmasses as one thing when he knows it's another.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 07:48 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:




Obama has no clue what's included in his gargantuan health care bill because he has not read it.
He is selling it to the dumbmasses as one thing when he knows it's another.


uhh, he hasn't read perhaps, maybe, possibly because it is not completed and has not been sent to him.

what part of that eludes your comprehension?
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 08:25 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,

uhh, he hasn't read perhaps, maybe, possibly because he doesn't give a **** and never will!

I'll say this really slow... maybe you can follow along this time.

Health care plays no role here, but the Democrats want this power - this control - so they're using
your economic angst to talk you into supporting their takeover of almost 20% of our economy.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 08:29 pm
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Modern_3T_MRI.JPG/800px-Modern_3T_MRI.JPG
This Machine Cures Fascists

(with apologies to woody guthrie)
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 08:37 pm
@djjd62,


Will Obama's swollen head fit in there?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 08:42 pm

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_fOWY-NIPXP0/RmNG79o5RJI/AAAAAAAAAHE/opdzZwZS_-4/s400/welcome.jpg

Obama Defends 'Rush' for Health Care Reform, Says 'Stars Are Aligned'

President Obama tries to rally support for health care reform at his fourth prime-time press conference.
But with momentum slowing considerably in the effort to reach a deal by the August recess, the president concedes
that he wants to "do this right" and says he wouldn't sign a bill that doesn't achieve key objectives like reducing costs.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 08:46 pm


Pelosi Claims Health Care Bill Has Enough Votes to Pass, Despite Skepticism

Despite trouble on the Energy and Commerce Committee, House Speaker
Nancy Pelosi says health care reform could pass on the floor if brought to a vote.

http://giovanniworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/liberals20are20wrong20smug20billboard20road20sign.jpg
0 Replies
 
Gargamel
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 11:19 pm
H2O Man Successfully Removes Rib To Facilitate More Efficient Self-Fellatio
Below viewing threshold (view)
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 06:32 am


ObamaCare in Trouble
0 Replies
 
 

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