57
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2023 11:53 pm
@Mame,
Mame wrote:
I thought guns and ammo had to be separated and locked up, with the gun unloaded.

Not when it is in a holster. Then you keep it ready for action.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2023 11:58 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
Yes, and the same can be said of alcohol.
This is not correct. Society wants to make a victim of people / disempower them by saying 'you have no choice because of X' (X in this case is 'you're an addict)...where the truth is that we always have a choice, but we can struggle with making the right choice.

With a firearm aimed at you and the trigger pulled - the average person truly has little choice in whether they live or die (when at close range & open area, or in a crowd)
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:02 am
@vikorr,
The same with people who are murdered with any other kind of weapon as well.

That's the nature of murder. Murderers never give their victims a choice as to whether to live or die.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:03 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
MontereyJack wrote:
Jesus would be appalled

Good afternoon!

For the record I was quoting Ebenezer Scrooge there. Cool

.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:04 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
Part of the reason people call parents like this 'gun nuts' is because they implicitly think the weapon can be left lying around for a 6 year old to find and play with. Morons.

People call gun owners gun nuts for the same reason that Klansmen use the N word.


vikorr wrote:
Or they obviously teach their 6 year old 'no one is allowed to take your guns from you under the 2nd ammendment, and if they try...' (ie. morons).

There is nothing wrong with teaching children about the value of freedom and civil liberties.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:05 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
The same with people who are murdered with any other kind of weapon as well.

We were talking about the difference between firearms and alcohol.

But there are also differences between firearms and knives - mostly related to distance, capacity numbers per individual, capacity against someone armed (say with a baseball bat, crow bar or other similar implement), and capacity against persons fleeing.

It is the differences that result in people seeing them differently, and treating them differently.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:06 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
When other countries have mass shooting the government does something about it.

Hardly.

Abolishing freedom does not do a thing about mass murder.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:07 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Won? You just lost Illinois.

That pistol grip ban will soon be struck down by the courts. All it does is prove that progressives hate freedom and hate America.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:09 am
@oralloy,
You already have abolished absolute freedom (otherwise known as anarchy) and the world is a better place for it. The question comes down to "what is the line between freedom and respressiveness?"

A very large number of people do not see gun control as repressive. Others do see it as repressive. Those that don't see it as repressive don't see any loss of freedom (they see 'necessary' balance), and those that see it as repressive see a loss of freedom. It is purely a matter of values and perspective.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:11 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
A. Alcohol deaths are either self inflicted; or

Most gun deaths are self inflicted as well.


vikorr wrote:
B. Where alcohol imposes deaths on others is on the roads, and that is heavily regulated; and

We have strong laws against murdering people. Also against manslaughter and negligent homicide.


vikorr wrote:
C. You cant purposefully use alcohol as a weapon of mass murder.

I suspect that it could be done.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:12 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Good article by Paul Auster on the damaging effect of guns.

Not so good. The article is based on falsehoods. Like the claim that guns cause murders.

Murderers cause murders. Murder victims are just as dead no matter what was used to kill them.


izzythepush wrote:
Apparently 82% of all gun deaths in the world occur in the US.

Those people would be just as dead if they were killed with a different weapon.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:13 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
We have strong laws against murdering people. Also against manslaughter and negligent homicide.
Those laws apply to all murders / homicides...while drink driving, age limit to drink, who can sell alcohol, who can buy alcohol, responsible service of alcohol etc all relate purely to specifically alcohol. Going by Glennn's raised issue...Guns should be regulated as well (as he said it is hypocritical to complain about Gun deaths when there are alcohol deaths...by the same token it must be hypocritical to complain about gun regulation when there is alcohol regulation)
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:14 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
I found this bit of that article the most interesting. It suggests gun owners are getting more extreme in their desire to own guns:
Quote:
Cars are a necessity of civilian life in America. Guns are not, and as more and more Americans have come to understand that, the percentage of households that own guns has been dropping steadily over the past 50 years, from half of them to just below a third, and yet the number of guns currently owned by Americans is larger than ever before – which means that fewer and fewer people are buying more and more guns.

That part of the article is untrue as well. Guns are far more necessary than cars. Guns protect us from harm by criminals.
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:15 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Guns protect us from harm by criminals.
In my 50's now, and haven't been threatened by a criminal. Easily done without a firearm (even if I like them), but doing without a car would be very difficult.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:15 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
You're right, children are being butchered every day by the NRA.

False. The NRA does not hurt anyone.


izzythepush wrote:
Schools are being shot up every week.

That's nothing to do with the NRA. They merely block gun laws.

Gun control has nothing to do with trying to prevent school shootings or trying to save lives.


izzythepush wrote:
Thank God our children are protected from NRA filth.

That's like saying you protect your children from filth like doctors and schoolteachers.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:18 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:
What? Are you going to bring smoking, over-eating, etc. into the mix now? This topic is about GUNS, not any other forms of killing. Stay on topic.

The hypocrisy of gun control advocates is entirely on topic.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:19 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
A national registry, among other things, is required for the good regulation of the keeping an bearing of arms in the US.

We already have a national registry. That's what Form 4473s do.

Keep in mind that "good regulation" merely means keeping the militia in top fighting shape.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:20 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
Around 50% of suicides in the US are self inflicted if I remember right.

I would think that 100% of suicides are self inflicted.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:25 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
But there are also differences between firearms and knives - mostly related to distance, capacity numbers per individual, capacity against someone armed (say with a baseball bat, crow bar or other similar implement), and capacity against persons fleeing.
It is the differences that result in people seeing them differently, and treating them differently.

Those differences are of little significance. Most murders are one-on-one affairs at close range. Knives are quite lethal under such circumstances.
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2023 12:25 am
@oralloy,
Glennn asked how many were inflicted by firearms. Context provides answers.
 

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