Guns: how much longer will it take ....

@vikorr,

vikorr wrote:

Do you mean the much higher proliferation of guns in the U.S. with fewer controls that has contributed to much higher murder & massacre rates than in the rest of the Western World?

No. Statistics show that gun availability has little impact on homicide rates. I mean the exact opposite of what you proposed.

Letting people carry guns (which it is their right to do anyway) is the way to reduce massacres.

3 Replies

@vikorr,

Try working on making people more moral in their personal relationships. Stop hampering the police and give them the respect they deserve. Stop being selfish. This is what is important.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Right, just look at the gun violence that Baldimo touts.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

Statistics show that gun availability has little impact on homicide rates.

among the more silly comments youve made. Gun availability per map area bears a direct relationship to the number of gun deaths per unit time and population.
I guess math was something of which you saw no value.

2 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

among the more silly comments you've made. Gun availability per map area bears a direct relationship to the number of gun deaths per unit time and population.
I guess math was something of which you saw no value.

Put your money where your mouth is and prove it.

0 Replies

@NealNealNeal,

Quote:

Try working on making people more moral in their personal relationships. Stop hampering the police and give them the respect they deserve. Stop being selfish. This is what is important.

I don't see how you got that topic out of what I wrote at all, nor does it seem to relate to the thread topic.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

No. Statistics show that gun availability has little impact on homicide rates. I mean the exact opposite of what you proposed.

Letting people carry guns (which it is their right to do anyway) is the way to reduce massacres.

I'm sure you know the gun ownership rates and the homicide and massacre rates. And likely you've posted your 'statistics' previously, but I'd be interested in seeing your statistics.

1 Reply

@vikorr,

This page breaks down the gun statistics pretty well:
https://medium.com/handwaving-freakoutery/everybodys-lying-about-the-link-between-gun-ownership-and-homicide-1108ed400be5

Best to open it in a "private/incognito browsing" window so no cookies are registered in your browser. They use cookies to limit the number of free articles that you can view each month.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Right, just look at the gun violence that Baldimo touts.

He isn't touting violence.

He is touting defense from violence.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

among the more silly comments youve made.

Progressives always think facts and reality are silly.

farmerman wrote:

Gun availability per map area bears a direct relationship to the number of gun deaths per unit time and population.

Irrelevant.

But nice attempt to distract from the subject I guess.

farmerman wrote:

I guess math was something of which you saw no value.

Note your usual inability to point out any errors in my math.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

His answer to gun violence is more guns. The areas he talks about are already saturated with guns.

He's touting gun violence.

2 Replies

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

His answer to gun violence is more guns. The areas he talks about are already saturated with guns.

He's touting gun violence.

You have a serious reading comprehension issue if that is what you think he wrote.

How about this, make all the gun laws you want, but they only apply to criminals? That way, law abiding citizens don't have to worry about a thousand different shitty laws infringing on our constitutional rights.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

While I have issues with the intrastate comparison (homicide rate vs gun ownership), the international one, relating to advanced western countries (rather than the generic all countries) was much more interesting - I even independently checked some of the stats (well, NZ and Switzerland). That was quite convincing.

I didn't see any mention though of:
- massacres
- gun ownership preventing massacres

I mention this last as it was part of your claim.

I wonder if they have a comparison on gun regulation effect (perhaps divided into light, moderate, heavy regulation)

1 Reply

@McGentrix,

Which criminals would your laws apply to? Tax cheats? Red light runners? Many gun crimes are committed by otherwise law abiding citizens up until the crime they've committed with guns.

It is precisely because of these criminals that the nice things you have to play with should be thoroughly regulated.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Which criminals would your laws apply to? Tax cheats? Red light runners? Many gun crimes are committed by otherwise law abiding citizens up until the crime they've committed with guns.

It is precisely because of these criminals that the nice things you have to play with should be thoroughly regulated.

That's dumb. Guns don't commit crimes, people do. Using a gun in the commission of a crime should carry a more serious sentence. If you use a gun in the commission of a crime, you are no longer a law abiding citizen, are you?

It's like you guys just don't get it... Guns im my house will never commit a crime on their own. So, why should I not be allowed to own whatever gun I desire? Even up to and including automatic weapons.

Prior restraint is no way to make laws.

1 Reply

@vikorr,

The problem lies with people, not guns. We have lost our understanding of personal morality. Gun control focus on symptoms while ignoring the actual problem.

1 Reply

@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

That's dumb. Guns don't commit crimes, people do. Using a gun in the commission of a crime should carry a more serious sentence. If you use a gun in the commission of a crime, you are no longer a law abiding citizen, are you?

Exactly. I'd preempt a potential gun criminal with gun laws rather than apply gun laws to them after they've committed their crime. An after-the-fact law is futile.

McGentrix wrote:

It's like you guys just don't get it... Guns im my house will never commit a crime on their own. So, why should I not be allowed to own whatever gun I desire? Even up to and including automatic weapons.

Because of the criminals that commit crimes with guns, even up to and including automatic weapons, your gun ownership should be thoroughly regulated.

McGentrix wrote:

Prior restraint is no way to make laws.

That's a rather broad dismissal that I don't think you really agree with. Prior restraint, preventive measures, and preemption all have their place in law and governmental actions.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

Quote:

An after-the-fact law is futile.

Almost every law is an after-the-fact law. You have to actually break the law for it to be effective. Until then it's just words on paper.

Minority Report was a movie, not a philosophy.

1 Reply

@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

Quote:
An after-the-fact law is futile.

Almost every law is an after-the-fact law. You have to actually break the law for it to be effective. Until then it's just words on paper.

Minority Report was a movie, not a philosophy.

There are regulations that one must abide by, though, that are effective.

1 Reply

@NealNealNeal,

Quote:

The problem lies with people, not guns. We have lost our understanding of personal morality. Gun control focus on symptoms while ignoring the actual problem.

Well, our morals have certainly gone downhill over the past decades, or to my point of view, more precisely, as a society we have much more towards the 'what's in it for me' kind of people, without the adjoining 'is it good for others / society' kind of peoples.

Treating symptoms of behavioural problems isn't necessarily a bad thing, and often a good thing - hence laws, fines & possible imprisonment for those who cause issues to society, and the deterrence value they hold to most people, for most crimes.

The actual problems, and their treatments, are a much more problematic topic. I don't think there'll ever be a perfect, or even near perfect solution for such things - though particular policies can influence the contributing factors. This last subject is really its own topic.

0 Replies

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know