Guns: how much longer will it take ....

You seemed to have missed that I was placing myself in the victims position, and talking about 'from the victims points of view'. In those split seconds where here was confronted with two 'rednecks' having stalked him, and hopped out of a truck with a shotgun looking at him...he wouldn't have had time to check out their social media profiles. Nor would he know their intentions, other than they had stalked him, stopped in front of him, got out of their truck, and confronted him with a shotgun. In any sane world, those people placed the victim in a position where he (the victim) had to decide whether or not he should fight for his life.

I realize that but the crime has happened and race baiters apparently have nothing. This was not racially motivated.

Fair enough.

Hmmm...maybe. There is a concept regarding bias - that there are conscious biases and unconscious biases. Unconscious biases tend to be cause by underlying cultural concepts and attitudes. Of course a persons 'culture' exists in both the wider context (eg national culture) and a more personal context (culture of state, city, neighbourhood, friends, education, habitual information sources eg. news channel watched, etc).

So say they don't have anything racist on their social media (haven't checked) - why:
- if they were worried about him being armed (which seems highly unlikely) , why didn't they just call the police (and keep updating 911 on the 'suspects' location); or
- being 2 men against one, why did they feel the need to 'arm up' against a person who was clearly out jogging? (

I wouldn't know if it was overtly motivated by racism. But to me, it is quite odd behaviour. That people suspect racism (particularly when added to their 'reasons', which keep coming up flawed) isn't surprising. But then again, maybe they are just two men who are rather intellectually challenged.

Terrifying moment shoppers run in panic after gunman 'with an AR-15' opened fire and shot at least three people at an Arizona mall

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8342659/Multiple-people-shot-Arizona-shopping-district-state-senator-says.html

Sen. Martín Quezada tweeted Wednesday evening: 'I just witnessed an armed terrorist with an AR-15 shoot up Westgate. There are multiple victims'
Glendale police confirmed the incident, saying three people were injured
The suspect is said to have surrendered and is now in custody
'I saw 2 victims with my own eyes. Not sure how many others', Quezada added

By Lauren Fruen For Dailymail.com

Published: 23:06 EDT, 20 May 2020 | Updated: 01:07 EDT, 21 May 2020


Three people were injured in a shooting in an Arizona shopping district on Wednesday evening, police say.

Senator Martín Quezada had earlier tweeted: 'I just witnessed an armed terrorist with an AR-15 shoot up Westgate. There are multiple victims.'

Glendale police later confirmed three people were injured after they were called 7:20pm local time. The suspect is said to have surrendered and is now in custody.

One of those injured is said to be in critical condition. The two others were expected to survive following the shooting near a popular shopping and entertainment district west of Phoenix. None of the victims have been named.

Officer Tiffany Ngalula did not confirm the gun used in the shooting but did say police are aware of video circulating on social media which looked to be posted by the shooter, who has not been officially identified.

Senator Quezada told 12 News: 'I saw him through my window after the shots were fired. He was walking calmly and reloading his weapon.'
Multiple people have been shot by a 'terrorist armed with an AR-15' in this Arizona shopping district, a state senator said Wednesday. The district is pictured Wednesday evening
+5

Multiple people have been shot by a 'terrorist armed with an AR-15' in this Arizona shopping district, a state senator said Wednesday. The district is pictured Wednesday evening
Sen. Martín Quezada tweeted: 'I just witnessed an armed terrorist with an AR-15 shoot up Westgate. There are multiple victims'

Sen. Martín Quezada tweeted: 'I just witnessed an armed terrorist with an AR-15 shoot up Westgate. There are multiple victims'
Glendale police confirmed the incident, saying three people were injured

Glendale police confirmed the incident, saying three people were injured
Video from the scene shows a large police presence. Arizona governor Doug Ducey said: 'We are monitoring this closely'


The Westgate shopping center, part of a complex that includes arenas for Cardinals football and Coyotes hockey, was humming with activity after many of its stores and restaurants were closed for more than a month due to the coronavirus outbreak.

Police locked down the area and were methodically going through businesses to search for any additional victims or suspects, the spokeswoman said.

Footage from the scene shows terrified shoppers fleeing in panic as gunshots ring out.

Law enforcement had earlier tweeted: 'Please stay out of the #Westgate area.

'Preliminary info from our dispatch is there were at least two persons struck by gunfire and one person is in custody.

'PIO is enroute to the scene. Media staging for now will be West of the Arena.'

These horrific shootings are becoming so common, there was nothing on the news today about it...The paper gets delivered around 5 AM, if they don't mention it....we have dropped into a dark place indeed.

Hopefully the police will care to investigate. They'll dig into the background of the two killers and I bet they will find evidence of racism. Otherwise, Mr Arbery's murder makes no sense at all.

It doesn't make sense to you because you keep trying to think of it as murder when it is nothing of the sort.

If they committed a misdemeanor by chasing someone down in the street with a shotgun, that makes the death involuntary manslaughter.

No deaths so far, one serious injury, and two non life threatening injuries.

As far as massacres go, it was pretty mild.

The NRA is so powerful it can censor the press.

Okay, so if I chase you with a gun, shoot it at you and kill you, I'm not guilty of murder. That's good to know.

Care to share your street address?

Tell us how they go about that.

Keep in mind that it's only involuntary manslaughter because the jogger was violently attacking Travis McMichael and trying to gain control over the shotgun.

Had there been no threat to Travis and Gregory McMichael, and had they still killed the jogger despite the lack of a threat, then the death would have been murder.

And keep in mind that involuntary manslaughter is still a pretty serious crime. You wouldn't want to be convicted of it. The penalty under Georgia law ranges from one to ten years.

I'm unsure if Georgia judges are constrained by sentencing guidelines or whether judges can impose any sentence they want within the given range.

I'm not sure how your system in the U.S. works, but here in Australia, each murder has two investigations - mostly conducted by the police at the same time, or both:
- Murder investigation
- Coronial investigation
The reason I'm not sure how it works in the US, is a Coronial investigation is run by a Coroner, who is a Magistrate (lower court Judge). From TV shows (I know, bad source of info) I'm not sure exactly what your Coroners units do, or how. In Australia, the purpose of the Coroner is to find out if there is anything society can do to prevent further such killings - so they look into the causes of the deaths. I'm pretty sure that includes any forms of racism, expressed ideologies, etc.

That is to say - maybe that is a standard part of your police departments investigation?

I'm not American, and like you, the little I know about their legal system derived from watching Law and Order for years (it was a really good show).

In the French system the police investigates under a judge specialized in building cases, called le juge d'instruction. This division of power is a good thing, supposed to ensure that evidence is collected the right way, the rights of the defendent are respected, etc. Some of them are too close to police forces though and covering up for their ****. Others get a bit of an ego trip when working on mediatic cases, or behave as enraged, inspired prosecutors (which is not their role - they are supposed to be neutral investigators, not pro or against any suspect). It's a tough job, much exposed.

As I recall, that show recognized that not every killing is murder.

Sometimes a killing is manslaughter. Sometimes a killing is accidental. Sometimes a killing is self defense.

Actively chasing someone while pointing guns at him and sjootkng him when he tries to defend himself is murder. If the races were vice versa, you would understand the concept right away but since you're a racist pig you can't.

Can you establish that anyone pointed a gun at the jogger before he charged at Travis McMichael?

At any rate, you are wrong. If his defense posed a lethal threat to them when they shot him, then his death is involuntary manslaughter.



Falsely accusing people of racism only makes you look goofy.

So your advice to American black men is to gang onto an average white man passing through their hood, chase him down, and kill him as soon as he tries to defend himself. Then you'll defend their rights to do so. Wonderful.

No. I would apply the same standard to them that I apply to Travis and Gregory McMichael (and now the third guy whose name I've not bothered to learn yet).

And what standard is that?