57
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2018 10:16 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
People do not carry out a massacre without first deciding to do so.
No disagreement there

Quote:
Guns do not make people decide to carry out a massacre.
No disagreement there

Quote:
The same people will decide to carry out massacres regardless of whether or not guns are available to them.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Quote:
Anyone who decides to carry out a massacre will look for a way to carry the massacre out.
Depends.

Quote:
They will be able to find a method with or without guns being available to them.
Depends.

So, we have a lot we agree on, and some that are qualified agreement/disagreement.

Our difference of opinion lies in the combination of a potential perpetrator's motivations to commit mass murder, determination to do so, their ability to do so, and the availability of their target group.
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  5  
Reply Sun 28 Oct, 2018 11:47 am

http://i63.tinypic.com/2yuytme.jpg
Below viewing threshold (view)
Region Philbis
 
  3  
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2018 07:24 am

https://i.imgur.com/Xsp7ShZ.jpg
revelette1
 
  3  
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2018 08:26 am
@Region Philbis,
I agree we need some sensible gun laws. I don't really care who it comes from, I just wish some moderates from the left and the right would pass laws which would at least have a way to monitor the internet and other such places for people searching for the components to modify a gun with the capabilities of becoming a deadly gun able to shoot multiple rounds quickly without having to stop and reload. Do the same with people on the internet searching for the components to make bombs. Also monitor people advocating violence. Maybe if the rhetoric ever calms down enough, some sensible gun and safety laws can be passed.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  3  
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2018 03:54 pm
NRATV, the National Rifle Association’s broadcast outlet, completely ignored news of an apparently racially motivated shooting at a Kroger grocery store in Kentucky that debunked the already discredited “good guy with a gun” myth and left two dead.

On October 24, 51-year-old Gregory Bush attempted to enter a predominantly Black church in Jeffersontown, KY, before heading to a Kroger grocery store where he shot two Black victims, the first in the store and the second in the parking lot. An armed bystander fired at Bush after he shot his second victim but missed him. Another witness said Bush told him he spared the witness’s life because “Whites don’t shoot whites.” The incident is currently being investigated as a hate crime.

The attempted action by an armed bystander further discredits the “good guy with a gun” myth,” a favorite of the NRA’s that has been debunked by both researchers and law enforcement. The “good guy” almost never stops an active shooter situation and actually can create further confusion for police officers arriving on scene.

On October 25 and 26, none of NRATV’s supposed news shows covered the shooting or developments in the days that followed, instead choosing to spread conspiracy theories about the migrant caravan making its way toward the United States, cast doubt on the legitimacy of the recent pipe bomb spree, and promote athletic clothes with a holster in them.

The shooting followed a 2014 campaign by the gun safety group Moms Demand Action, encouraging Kroger to “prohibit the open carry of guns in its stores.” NRATV aired multiple segments pushing back against the effort and claiming the campaign was “not about actually reducing violence; it’s about winning that press release victory.”

NRATV ignored the Kroger shooting in Kentucky after backing the store’s open-carry policy
Baldimo
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2018 04:43 pm
@revelette1,
Your last post was asking about sensible guns laws and your current post is a hit piece on the NRA.

Did they mention the shooting that took place where someone did stop a shooting in progress? It's interesting that I can't seem to find any national news organizations reporting on it.
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/armed-father-stops-shooter-at-birmingham-mcdonalds/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/alabama-mcdonalds-gunman-killed-by-armed-dad-who-is-injured-in-shootout
In case you think they are making it up why is no one else covering it? There was a mass shooting and it deserves more coverage, but not a single blip from the rest of the MSM. The mass shooting fits their narritive and the other one doesn't.


There, I disproved your theory with an real event of a good guy with a gun stoping a bad guy with a gun. The only thing your story does is point to a single guy who thought he could maybe stop someone, and he froze, plain and simple, at least he didn't fire at the guy, miss and hit someone else. I would rather he froze then injured other people, maybe this will convince him he isn't cut out to be a CCW holder.

Now can we discuss what you consider "sensible gun laws" or does sensible mean all semi-auto guns? We already have background checks and FFL required shipment for all internet sales, what else would you add?
vikorr
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2018 03:56 am
@Region Philbis,
Do you honestly believe that claim?

The truth is much more likely a mix of races, probably in similar proportions to the population, with some being a bit over or under represented. Certainly I immediately found articles suggesting that is more the case, and the 154 not black claim was made on a 'yet to be convicted' basis (ie. innocent until proven guilty).
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2018 05:47 am
@vikorr,

do you understand the fundamental difference between "crime" and "hate crime"?

i'm not sure you do...
Region Philbis
 
  3  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2018 05:49 am

https://i.imgur.com/2kR0GiV.jpg
revelette1
 
  3  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2018 06:32 am
@Baldimo,
If I did a hit piece on the NRA (the leaders not maybe it's members), it is because I believe they are hugely responsible for many in congress to be against sensible gun laws.

As for it being not true: below is a link to the NYT from five days ago. Below the article at the link, there is a link to related news of the police saying the gunman tried to enter a black church before going to Kroger. I didn't press on the related link so I don't know why he was either prevented or decided against it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/24/us/kroger-shooting-kentucky.html

As for why it is not really talked about, there is so much else going on with the horrible killing at Synagogue shooting in Pittsburg, Trump's reactions, the Pipe bombs sent to democrats in the mail, watching the mail bomber being arrested and Trump's obssession with the caravan, and the mid-terms , it is little surprising the above would not really be discussed right now.
Baldimo
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2018 08:21 am
@Region Philbis,
I love the mixing of #'s between gun crimes and suicides, you wonder why people do not trust the anti-gun groups, they lie about their stats.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2018 12:22 pm
@Region Philbis,
Your post related to mass shootings, and the ethnicity of the offenders. Once challenged on the accuracy of the statistics in your post, you now want to ignore such and address something else?
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2018 12:34 pm
@vikorr,

sorry -- i thought you were commenting on a different post...
vikorr
 
  0  
Reply Wed 31 Oct, 2018 02:51 am
@Region Philbis,
If you click on the "@ Region Philbis" (or similar name) at the top of any 'reply' post, it will take you to the post they are replying to.
Region Philbis
 
  2  
Reply Wed 31 Oct, 2018 04:04 am
@vikorr,

ya don't say...
vikorr
 
  0  
Reply Wed 31 Oct, 2018 05:15 am
@Region Philbis,
Fair enough. I guess you forgot to do so then.
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  3  
Reply Thu 1 Nov, 2018 05:57 am

https://i.imgur.com/IfnbceP.jpg
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 1 Nov, 2018 06:39 am
@Region Philbis,
That doesn't make sense. Booze impairs the user, Guns don't.

Guns don't kill people, criminals do.
The solution to mass shootings is fewer criminals.

That is how it would be properly worded.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Thu 1 Nov, 2018 06:42 am
People who commit mass murder in schools and places of worship are certainly impaired in my book. Maybe you need to think about getting yourself a new book.
 

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