Guns: how much longer will it take ....

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

dint realize the 2nd Amendment covered gun show loopholes or even licensing of gun dealers.

I didn't say it did.

I said that it's too dangerous to allow the government to have better control over guns with all these attempts to violate the Second Amendment going on.

farmerman wrote:

The second amendment is totally silent except for some few items.

The Second Amendment says the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

That includes the right to have guns that are suitable for self defense.

It also includes the right to have any gun that there is no reason for banning.

farmerman wrote:

Thats why I see that these dumass pro gun laws will, in a few generations, be a thing of the past.
Wnna bet? Ill say 50 to 100 years nd thisll be a history book issue (or else we will be three countries)

It'll be a history book issue because you will have been totally defeated by the NRA.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

why not call it a loophole. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS

Quote:

A forgotten condition in a law, agreement, etc. that allows one to interpret and, in conclusion, get around another condition(s).

It wasn't forgotten, and it wasn't meant to get around anything, it was left out on purpose. When the national background check system was agreed upon by Congress, it was done so by leaving out private sales as just that, private.

You can't call something you don't like a loophole, that isn't the definition of loophole. The compromise to the Federal background check system was for the feds to stay out of private sales and let the states address the private sales issue.
CO has, the only place I don't have to do a background check would between family, I think they did this mostly for inheritance issues. Even if you are going to have someone hold onto your guns for more than 3 days, ie; you are going out of town for a month and don't want to leave them for that long in case of theft, you have to do the background check prior to moving them to a friends house.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

Wnna bet? Ill say 50 to 100 years nd thisll be a history book issue (or else we will be three countries)

Then the Left will have won. Destroying this country is their objective.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

Even if you call it ‘background check loophole’ ... gun shows are THE easily accessible marketplaces for people who don't want to be subject to a background check to find non-licensed gun sellers.

Unless you can prove that a majority of the guns used in crimes come from gun shows where there are no background checks, you really have no case. You can change the law on guesses or you can change the law based on facts. Which do you think the US Constitution supports?

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@Baldimo,

Quote:

When the national background check system was agreed upon by Congress, it was done so by leaving out private sales as just that, private.

Youre not undesrtanding then?? I dont know how difficult this is. A GUNSHOW WHEREIN SOME GUYS WHO YOU CALL "PRIVATELLY SELLING" and I call "Running a Business" because he pays taxes on his sales as ordinary income (He probably has a light day job to cover his trax).

This is a fact . This is a LOOPHOLE , and if you think most loopholes hqdnt first been thought of when the laws were written, I have a bridge for sale for your consideration

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@Baldimo,

AMERICAN COLLEGIATE DICTIONARY say: (3rd definition ) "A loophole is a means of evasion" Th definition is silent on whether its intentional or an oversight

I believe you made-up your definition The OED agrees with me (they just have it much wordier and a guy signed his name as an author)

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@farmerman,

Quote:

Youre not undesrtanding then?? I dont know how difficult this is. A GUNSHOW WHEREIN SOME GUYS WHO YOU CALL "PRIVATELLY SELLING" and I call "Running a Business" because he pays taxes on his sales as ordinary income (He probably has a light day job to cover his trax).

No, I'm not understanding, this sounds like you are more concerned with them not paying their taxes for a business they are running, then them selling guns to criminals who are committing crimes. Is the purpose of the background check to prevent criminals and crazy people from getting guns, or is it about some dude selling guns and not paying taxes on the sales?

Quote:

This is a fact . This is a LOOPHOLE , and if you think most loopholes hqdnt first been thought of when the laws were written, I have a bridge for sale for your consideration

From your intent on not paying taxes on an under the table business, it sounds like a loophole in the Tax code and not the gun control enforcement codes.

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https://wtop.com/maryland/2018/04/maryland-governor-signs-gun-violence-prevention-bills/

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@Baldimo,

once more and I have no idea why youre being so obtuse .
Your argument is that its not a loophole because loopholes are inadvertent ways for getting past rules of which the unrecognized parts allow for evasion. I say BULLSHIT to that thought .
My argument about taxes is that the "private seller" claims this selling income as ordinary inome (Meaning he worked for it) an, like Al Capone got caught because he did not pay his taxes on winnings, these gun show "private citizens" report it this telling you that youre full of **** because they ARE NOT jut private citizens selling a few guns they had lying about. I dont think you have ever been to gun show because in most states there are NO limits to the number of guns one may purchase per month to "renew their private stock"

Either youre trying to intelligently deny the very fact that these guys are in business to sell guns but can snake around the Fed rules because of the gun show LOOPHOLES that many states have in effect, OR, (perhaps) you honestly dont know what the hell youre talking about, which is it???

Guys go to Virgini here they have a 50 gun per month sale limit for "private ownership" (That 600 guns a year).Then they can go over to est Virginia (here I used to buy flintlock guns) and there used to be NO limit on monthly purchases. THEN, they bring the gunw back to Pq and sign up for the summer nd winter gun show seasons and sell maybe a thousand or more guns as a "private gun owner"

Youre balmy if you dont call that eluding the rules.
Lotsa guns are sold and smuggled into urban areas where they are sold in back lots to criminal types and gang bangers , mostly pistols and shotguns.

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@farmerman,

no mega Capacity clips - I consider anything larger than 100 to be a mega capacity clip. I would agree with that.

no full auto add ons - I agree with that

definitions of legal purchasers (no crazy people sales tc)- This already exists

Definitely gun show loopholes - You should need an FFL to sell guns at a public event

Buying a specified number of guns/unit time to market to anyone - Nope. I should be free to buy as many guns and ammo as I desire so long as I meet the above requirements.

report stolen or lost guns - definitely. Isn't this already a thing though?

Other definitions of "dangerous weapons" from the Firearms Act remain - Not sure what those are and no desire to look them up. "dangerous weapons" is far too vague to mean anything though.

Background checks with teeth - within reason and within a reasonable amount of time.

Id be satisfied with that list , I really cant think of any more but there may be. This list may be incomplete but Someone else can add on and Ill see whether I can agree or not.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Youre balmy if you dont call that eluding the rules.
Lotsa guns are sold and smuggled into urban areas where they are sold in back lots to criminal types and gang bangers , mostly pistols and shotguns.

Are you suggesting that criminals commit crimes?

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@McGentrix,

If you cant follow the discussion dont jump in and try to underpin one of your fellows with some douche baggery . He's wiggling on a hook.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

He's wiggling on a hook.

I disagree.

The gun control movement always likes to justify the unjustifiable by referring to nonsense buzzwords. For instance, whenever they want to ban a type of bullet, they refer to it as a cop-killer bullet.

Calling something a loophole is just another version of that. It is appropriate to summarily disregard any gun control proposal that contains the terms "loophole", "reasonable", or "common sense".

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@oralloy,

well, if ya dont like it write your state legislature. It is a loophole in a law designed to circumvent a rule. If you cant comprehend the simplicity then work on your reading comp, dont be arguing against the facts.

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@McGentrix,

ct is about the ownership of defied weapons termed "dangerous"in the law. Remember it was in 1934 when first passed ,(and amended a time or three). full autos are dangerous as are shotguns with short barrels with open chokes.

Definitions of those who cannot obtain weapons is all the time being tested and several times purchases were allowed to folks who shouldnt have been allowed purchase.
Banana clips start at 30, thats my definition. a 100 rounder would be what Ive been tought as a "drum mag " or stanag box and would be ungainly without a stronger receiver .

Quote:

Nope. I should be free to buy as many guns and ammo as I desire so long as I meet the above requirements

OK, I can actually agree with this with the proviso because then you would be a gun merchant subject to all the requirements and what Id call a professional weapons dealer.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

well, if ya dont like it write your state legislature.

I have no objections to allowing people to continue to buy guns without a background check and without records being retained.

Since there is such a strong push to violate the Second Amendment, it is important to curtail the government's control over gun ownership.

farmerman wrote:

It is a loophole in a law designed to circumvent a rule.

That is incorrect. There was no intention to circumvent anything.

As I said, "loophole" is just an empty buzzword that is used whenever a proposal can't be justified with facts and logic. It is much like the terms "reasonable" and "common sense".

farmerman wrote:

If you cant comprehend the simplicity then work on your reading comp, dont be arguing against the facts.

I comprehend everything just fine, and I always argue for the facts.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

I comprehend everything just fine, and I always argue for the facts

. Whatever you say. Loophole is the term . if you cant accept its actual meaning its nothing to me, anyway you probably dont play in any legislatures of which Im aware.

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I have no objections to allowing people to continue to buy guns without a background check and without records being retained

thats a bizarre stand. I believe that most civilized people would want something substantially more assuring than your "lack of objections".

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Whatever you say. Loophole is the term.

It is a term that is used whenever a proposal cannot be justified with facts and logic.

farmerman wrote:

if you cant accept its actual meaning its nothing to me,

I accept the fact that it is a meaningless buzzword used whenever a proposal cannot be justified with facts and logic.

farmerman wrote:

anyway you probably dont play in any legislatures of which Im aware.

As I am a member of the gun rights movement, legislatures tend to do what I tell them to do.

farmerman wrote:

thats a bizarre stand.

Not at all. So long as there are active pushes to violate the Second Amendment, it is quite appropriate to prevent the government from having much control over guns.

farmerman wrote:

I believe that most civilized people would want something substantially more assuring than your "lack of objections".

What they want doesn't matter.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

It is a term that is used whenever a proposal cannot be justified with facts and logic

Its a listing of a statute in Pa. Not sure about the other 22 + states and 4 commonwealths. The statute has a preamble that lays out all the why's and wherefores. If you have no idea dont try to bluff

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

If you have no idea dont try to bluff

I know exactly why people use the term "loophole". They do it because they can't justify their proposal with facts and logic.

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