Guns: how much longer will it take ....

@glitterbag,

Ain't too hard to do...

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

No it ain't.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Ditto with anti-aircraft guns.

If you are counting a .50 BMG rifle as an anti-aircraft gun, you are misinformed, as those are freely available to American citizens.

Olivier5 wrote:

And therefore the second amendment is not currently applied. It is severely curtailed because you poor souls can't be allowed to get as big a gun as you may wish...

Presuming for the sake of argument that you are referring to a gun that is not freely available to American citizens, that would only be a violation of the Second Amendment if you could explain why we needed this gun for defense against criminals.

If preventing us from having it doesn't impede our defense against criminals, then there is no violation of the Second Amendment (presuming of course that the ban can be justified with a good reason).

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Anti-aircraft guns are not "riffles". They look like this:

http://kamar-zinnfiguren.de/images/product_images/info_images/ace-72276_6672_0.jpg

and they can shoot down airplanes. The calliber is typically somewhere around 100 mm. ie the bullet are two or three inches wide.

Quote:

that would only be a violation of the Second Amendment if you could explain why we needed this gun for defense against criminals.

The amendment says nothing about personnel self-defense against criminals. Therefore it is not being applied as written.

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@Olivier5,

In our navy, we used 20 mm "maschine-gun-like" gun (20/70 Mk 10) on landing crafts (LCM) as anti-airplane gun.
I've shot with it, not terribly successfully, since you had to move it with your feet and didn't have a proper training (wasn't my job either, but "they thought, since I was the second in command [during my time as a reserve officer] ...)

When I was as a conscrit on a coastal minesweeper, I'd been for some months on the the second team for our anti-aircraft gun, a 40 mm (40/70 Bofors 315).
During an air target practice shooting, our team nearly got the Noratlas once.

(I'm on that photo, too: the one with the binoculars, far left in the bridge wing, at the bearing compass.)

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

You said that "gun-free zones" are what leads to mass shootings, not the proliferation of guns.

That isn't what I said at all, don't put words in my mouth and then expect me to "defend" something I didn't say.
Here is what I actually said:

Quote:

The application of "gun free zones", which is where all these mass shootings take place,

I stand by my statement.

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This is irrational and false. Vegas is only one counter-example among dozens in recent memory, where a mass shooting happened outside of a gun-free zone.

Irrational was you changing what I said to fit your bullshit points. Which other mass shootings have taken place in area's where guns are allowed? You've made the statement, now back it up with some proof.
Last time I checked, the anti-gun groups were pushing the idea that we have to stop the killing of our children in their schools. "It's for the kid's!".

Quote:

Facts are stubborn. They don't disappear when you ignore them.

Fact's are stubborn they are also required to prove a point, which you have not done. You have to prove that the majority of mass shootings take place in none "gun free zones". Remember, it is you who is trying to say that Las Vegas is the rule and not the exception when it comes to mass shootings.

2 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Okay, so there are smaller ones. Still, there're closer to a cannon than a riffle.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Definitely: the one on the landingcraft is officially named 20-mm-Oerlikon-Kanone ("Oerlikon 20 mm cannon"), the one on the minesweeper Bofors 40 mm Luftvärnsautomatkanon ("Bofors 40 mm automatic anti-aircraft cannon").

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@Baldimo,

You said:

Quote:

The application of "gun free zones", which is where all these mass shootings take place, and the inability if letting the communities decide on whether teachers could choose to train and carry in the schools is what is leading to these types of incidents being so deadly.

This is evidently false since many mass shooting happen outside of schools or other gun-free zones. Eg Vegas, or the killings at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas.

As I said, facts are stubborn.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

This is evidently false since many mass shooting happen outside of schools or other gun-free zones. Eg Vegas, or the killings at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas.

As I said, facts are stubborn.

Vegas is an outlier as no other mass shooting has been like it due to where the shooter was and who he was shooting at. You are going to have to come up with a big list to prove your point.
VA Tech, Sandyhook, Columbine, Pulse Night club, CO Theater Shooting, Navy Yard, Parkland...
The shootings y'all use to advocate for stricter gun laws and gun bans, are all shootings that took place in area's where people were not allowed to have guns.

Quote:

As I said, facts are stubborn.

I'm still waiting for those facts...

2 Replies

@Baldimo,

How many counterexamples do you need to grant me the point that not all mass shootings happen in gun-free zones?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

How many counterexamples do you need to grant me the point that not all mass shootings happen in gun-free zones?

I might have said all and that was my bad. I'll amend my statement to say that a majority of mass shootings happen in "gun free zones", which was my original intention but I think you knew that. The examples used by the anti-gun groups though are all about the kids and their safety and these shootings take place in schools which are "gun free zones". Hence so much support is thrown behind the Parkland survivors and their mission the ban guns they don't like and high capacity magazines. Did you know high capacity magazines were not used at Parkland?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

"Peace be on you."

Pieces is what they(Islam) want to turn you into. The fact that you think differently(deny a reality) calls all your decisions and opinions into question.

1 Reply

@coldjoint,

before the time of the Crusades, Islam was about the most open free thinking religion/govt in the world. They sought out and celebrated many ways of thinking.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

Islam was about the most open free thinking religion/govt in the world.

That is a myth. Like a lot of things you believe.

Quote:

The Muslim concentration within a population is proportional to the decline of scientific achievement. It is no accident that the Muslim world has had little to show for itself in the last 800 years or so, since running out of new civilizations to cannibalize.

Third, the accomplished scientists and cultural icons who were Muslim were often considered heretics in their day, sometimes with good reason. One of the greatest achievers to come out of the Muslim world was the Persian scientist and philosopher, al-Razi. His impressive works are often held up as 'proof' of Muslim accomplishment. But what apologists often leave out is that al-Razi was denounced as a blasphemer for following his own religious beliefs – which were in obvious contradiction to traditional Islam.

Islam lies, it is what they do. And there is no free thinking in Islam. It is forbidden. Now get back to the topic(guns) you might actually know something about
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/myths/science.aspx

1 Reply

@coldjoint,

Quote:

That is a myth. Like a lot of things you believe

NO, its actually history. Youve been buying into xenophobia pinky

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@farmerman,

Quote:

They sought out and celebrated many ways of thinking.

How about some examples of that?

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@Baldimo,

Quote:

I might have said all and that was my bad.

So you're granting me the point that mass shootings also happen where guns are allowed. Thank you. Heck, they even happen in army camps where there are guns all around.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

So you're granting me the point that mass shootings also happen where guns are allowed.

As I said before, they are the exception and not the rule. A vast majority of mass shootings do take place in "gun free zones". Just as a side note, concerts like the one in Las Vegas are indeed "gun free zones".

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Thank you. Heck, they even happen in army camps where there are guns all around.

I must be thinking of in a war zone, there are no guns allowed to be carried by military or civilian personal on a military base, except by Military Police.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

There's no 'rule' that mass shootings happen only in school. The only discernable pattern is that they're all carried out with guns.

Quote:

there are no guns allowed to be carried by military or civilian personal on a military base, except by Military Police.

Interesting. Why do you think this rule is in force?

2 Replies

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

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