Welcome Sports Haters!

@OmSigDAVID,

Regarding your attendance at President Reagan's Inaugural Ball, you must move around in high social circles!

0 Replies

@Francis,

Francis wrote:

I'm not going to dissect your post, where you spread falsity,
making up definitions for words that are far from meaning what you claim.

Nonsense, Francis. U have no idea what u r talking about. Your allegation is ill considered and false.

Tell us, Francis:
what is YOUR understanding of a conservatively interpreted contract?
I declare that it is applied rigidly and inflexibly despite any importuning to the contrary.
If u will be so kind, please explain where I am mistaken.

Will u enlighten us as to what is a LIBERAL interpretation of a contract ?
Shall we say: a contract of sale of a car for $50,000?

I can explain the concept.
I am willing to explain it.
I predict that u will refuse to, probably including an insult
along with your refusal. We shall see.

Francis wrote:

As a conservative, you should stuck to the traditional etymology of words..

I have done that,
but I do not accept the liberal deviations therefrom.

Quote:

liberal (adj.)
late 14c., from O.Fr. liberal "befitting free men, noble, generous," from L. liberalis "noble, generous," lit. "pertaining to a free man," from liber "free," from PIE base *leudheros (cf. Gk. eleutheros "free"), probably originally "belonging to the people" (though the precise semantic development is obscure), from *leudho- "people" (cf. O.C.S. ljudu, Lith. liaudis, O.E. leod, Ger. Leute "nation, people"). Earliest reference in English is to the liberal arts. Sense of "free in bestowing" is from late 14c. With a meaning "free from restraint in speech or action" (late 15c.)

That is accurate in failure to exclude mistake;
failure to exclude distortion; taking a "free" form interpretation
of a contract, or a statute or any body of rules.

Quote:

liberal was used 16c.-17c. as a term of reproach.
It revived in a positive sense in the Enlightenment,
with a meaning "free from prejudice, tolerant," which emerged 1776-88.

Indeed, yes: tolerant of error; tolerant of distortion;
tolerant of deviation from the original terms.
"free from prejudice" that the fact is the fact, e.g. 1 = 1
1 does not = 1.2; there is no room for deviation. That is conservative math.
The prejudice is that the fact is the fact.

It was like the Democrats in 2000 who demanded to keep re-counting over and over and over
and over until Gore eventually comes out ahead and then STOP !!!! never to count again.

Quote:

Purely in reference to political opinion, "tending in favor of freedom
and democracy" it dates from c.1801, from Fr. libéral, originally
applied in English by its opponents (often in French form and with
suggestions of foreign lawlessness) to the party favorable to individual political freedoms.

This is very true. This refers to CLASSICAL LIBERALISM, which is the opposite of Roosevelt-Kennedy
collectivist-authoritarian leaning liberalism. CLASSICAL liberals were libertarians, like Goldwater and ME.
Classical Liberals supported laissez faire free enterprize, as I do.
As I said, repeatedly (and as shoud be obvious) without DEVIATION, from SOME criterion,
there can be no liberalism. The criterion from which Classical Liberalism deviates is authoritarian Monarchism.
I re-iterate: personal liberty is INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL
to the domestic power of government; in this case, royal government.

Quote:

But also (especially in U.S. politics) tending to mean
"favorable to government action to effect social change,"

Yes; that is a radically DIFFERENT kind of liberalism.
Whereas the Classical Liberalism of earlier years had deviated from
the authoritarianism of Monarchy, in favor laissez faire capitalism, Individualism and personal liberty, the recent
Roosevelt-Kennedy liberalism deviated from the libertarianism
and Individualism of the US Constitution (born of crippling the domestic powers of government),
deviating in favor of class warfare, to create an artificial economic equality by tearing down the rich and middle classes
to give away their property to the poor, and lying about that being constitutional.
The liberalism is in the lying.

Quote:

Definitions of liberal on the Web:

broad: showing or characterized by broad-mindedness;
"a broad political stance"; "generous and broad sympathies";
"a liberal newspaper"; "tolerant ... having political or social views favoring reform and progress tolerant of change;
not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition a person
who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties

I agree with some of this, Francis. The "broadmindedness" is such as to INCLUDE ERROR, and adopt error,
the error of deviancy and distortion.
That error of deviancy woud be rejected by the narrow minded, inflexible, rigid conservative.

As an example,
let us consider the philosophy of a pastry chef, who prepares a pie.
He is a conservative.
When a leftist suggests that a little bit of ground up glass
shoud be included to make it crunchy,
our conservative chef rejects the idea out of hand.

He is rigidly, inflexibly against it.
The leftist complains that he is not willing to try new things
and claims that ground up glass has (or shoud have) historical
culinary roots and that the PROPER interpretation
of the recipe includes ground glass in the ingredients.

He demands that our chef take a more "BROADMINDED" vu of the ingredients.

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

The statement about imaginary friends was only a joke, David. Please, i_like_1981 is not always very serious in his discussions but I think it is time to cut the crap and talk real, debating the true reasons why sports, and especially jocks, have such a negative effect on our lives.

No I did not ever sue the jocks. I tried not to get myself into any more trouble than I was already in, socially of course. Snitching on these more popular thugs will only cause further bullying as these people tend to do what they want and will not accept any authority from elders. Believe me, I would very much have liked to make them pay for all the harm they did to me but when you're going through things like that, sometimes the best idea is to just shut up, keep your head down and occasionally make the odd wise-ass, defensive remark when a good opportunity comes. But I tried to keep it under control myself, not involving parents, teachers or the law, and although it became unbearable, at least I was giving them no trouble back to further agitate them, which can only make things even worse.

Now then, the "girl beating". No, there was no particular reason indicated for that. I was just walking out of school one day, I think shortly after the day I recited 150 digits of pi in April of 1996, and they were hanging out at the gate smoking and talking when they instantly made a beeline for me. Of course, I knew they were coming. I tried to keep walking and ignore them, but it was no use. They knew I was a weak target who wouldn't do much to defend himself so the girl (who was called Heike and one of the top cheerleaders in my year) suddenly grabbed me and headbutted me in the teeth with full force. I went down quite hard. Her jock boyfriends started laughing and then she looked down on me from above. I couldn't believe a beautiful girl like her was inflicting such harm on me. She just sneered "Go on recite your pi now! That won't save you!" and proceeded to punch me eight times in the head as the jocks started laughing. After that, they just left - one of them even kissed her and another high-fived her, leaving me on the ground for dead. Nobody really cared or came to help me. I was pretty alone. I managed to struggle back onto my feet about 30 seconds after they went but my jaw was smeared with blood. They didn't steal anything off me, but another bit of my shockingly low self-esteem had gone. After that incident, I made sure never to stand out again. I wouldn't speak to my math teacher again for another week after that. She'd made me recite the pi, the whole class watching. High school sucked. I have more stories to tell, but only if you want me to.

Things may have been more pleasant at your school, David, but that certainly did not apply for mine. I'll never forget the **** I had to go through back in my high school days. It's over now, and I hope never to see the place or the people again. What I went through, caused by people who considered me inferior and pathetic for the plain reason I preferred academia over sports, is the reason why I hate jocks so much and why I really can't stand sport either. You can call me intolerant or ignorant of sports fans but I wouldn't be like this if the ones I did encounter weren't so ignorant of my interests.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

1 Reply

@I Like 1981,

I Like 1981 wrote:

The statement about imaginary friends was only a joke, David. Please, i_like_1981 is not always very serious in his discussions but I think it is time to cut the crap and talk real, debating the true reasons why sports, and especially jocks, have such a negative effect on our lives.

No I did not ever sue the jocks. I tried not to get myself into any more trouble than I was already in, socially of course. Snitching on these more popular thugs will only cause further bullying as these people tend to do what they want and will not accept any authority from elders. Believe me, I would very much have liked to make them pay for all the harm they did to me but when you're going through things like that, sometimes the best idea is to just shut up, keep your head down and occasionally make the odd wise-ass, defensive remark when a good opportunity comes. But I tried to keep it under control myself, not involving parents, teachers or the law, and although it became unbearable, at least I was giving them no trouble back to further agitate them, which can only make things even worse.

Now then, the "girl beating". No, there was no particular reason indicated for that. I was just walking out of school one day, I think shortly after the day I recited 150 digits of pi in April of 1996, and they were hanging out at the gate smoking and talking when they instantly made a beeline for me. Of course, I knew they were coming. I tried to keep walking and ignore them, but it was no use. They knew I was a weak target who wouldn't do much to defend himself so the girl (who was called Heike and one of the top cheerleaders in my year) suddenly grabbed me and headbutted me in the teeth with full force. I went down quite hard. Her jock boyfriends started laughing and then she looked down on me from above. I couldn't believe a beautiful girl like her was inflicting such harm on me. She just sneered "Go on recite your pi now! That won't save you!" and proceeded to punch me eight times in the head as the jocks started laughing. After that, they just left - one of them even kissed her and another high-fived her, leaving me on the ground for dead. Nobody really cared or came to help me. I was pretty alone. I managed to struggle back onto my feet about 30 seconds after they went but my jaw was smeared with blood. They didn't steal anything off me, but another bit of my shockingly low self-esteem had gone. After that incident, I made sure never to stand out again. I wouldn't speak to my math teacher again for another week after that. She'd made me recite the pi, the whole class watching. High school sucked. I have more stories to tell, but only if you want me to.

Sure; go ahead. WHERE did this happen?
How did u stand academically? About how good were your grades?

Did u ever consider defensively learning any martial arts?

It saddens me that u went thru such intense unhappiness.

I Like 1981 wrote:

Things may have been more pleasant at your school, David, but that certainly did not apply for mine. I'll never forget the **** I had to go through back in my high school days. It's over now, and I hope never to see the place or the people again. What I went through, caused by people who considered me inferior and pathetic for the plain reason I preferred academia over sports, is the reason why I hate jocks so much and why I really can't stand sport either. You can call me intolerant or ignorant of sports fans but I wouldn't be like this if the ones I did encounter weren't so ignorant of my interests.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

What do u like best about 1981?

Did u go on to college?
Did u independently pursue your mathematical interests?

If u don 't mind my asking, just to understand your situation more clearly,
meaning no disrespect,
did thay ever call into question your sexuality?

I only raise the question because your description
sounds somewhat like gay-bashing.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Okay, right. I used to live in inner-city London, the capital city of the United Kingdom, where I went to both primary and high school. You do understand that in the heart of big cities, you will encounter some of the most cruel, unforgiving thugs known to man. I was too soft for the city, if you want my honest opinion, David. I enjoyed books and learning and I made quite a big show of letting everybody know about it. I blatantly showed no interest in sports and even once when a jock asked me "Why don't you like sports you queer?", I just replied "Because they don't do me any good." He just laughed. Absolutely no getting through to those people. Of course, over here we don't describe them as being "jocks" as Jock is actually an offensive term for a Scottish person. We call them Chavs, morons or just bullies and thugs. But I'm guessing it's mainly Americans on this board and as I am not a Scot, I do not mind using the word "jock" on this thread.

Yes, your suggestion that I should have learned martial arts did cross my mind at some points and I was planning to do karate but the size of some of the people that picked on me made me believe that I would not even be able to take them down even with a weapon. One of the guys was 6'4" and about 200 lbs. at the age of 15. It'd take a LOT more than a few months of martial arts training to have whupped his ass. I didn't really have much faith in my own abilities either so I chose not to react through violence. I wasn't small but I was far from big and tough. Beating up the bullies was out of the question at the time.

Sorry I can't answer all of your questions now, time is running a bit thin for me. But I will inform you that my high school grades were reasonably impressive and I scored all A's in my subjects apart from Biology in which I got a "B". One of my bullies actually didn't even scrape a single C, so he gained no qualifications at O-Level/GCSEs. I thought about going up to him and calling him a ******* dumbass but I guess the smug feeling inside me of at last having got one over on him in life made me feel satisfied enough. Fighting was not necessary anymore. I had achieved what I needed to achieve, and for my Sixth Form days, I changed to a different school as I had to get out of high school. Things were slightly better there and I did make a few good new friends, although there was the slightly unwelcome feeling at first of having to intrude into other people's well-established social circles. Still, at least I was out of high school.

Yes, the jocks did call my sexuality into question numerous times. Just the usual insults like "fag" and "queer" really, these people are very predictable. Plus I was not seen with many girls due to my lack of confidence and of course, the incident with the notorious Heike had kind of put me off talking to girls having gotten to see the aggression of one of them at my own expense.

Regarding your final point, I don't understand. How does my post sound like gay bashing? Please clarify. I did not intend to cause any offence - I didn't realise it either - but if my post may have possessed those sorts of overtones, please be made aware that it is not intentional. I have nothing against any kind of people. Except for JOCKS!!!!! But I have reasons to hate jocks. I only hate those who do me harm, not those who I choose to hate out of spite.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

1 Reply

@I Like 1981,

U seem like a good fellow; welcome to the forum!
U have my good will and moral support.

How did u choose 1981 as distinct from other years?
(I like it too.)

I Like 1981 wrote:

Okay, right. I used to live in inner-city London, the capital city
of the United Kingdom, where I went to both primary and high school.
You do understand that in the heart of big cities, you will encounter
some of the most cruel, unforgiving thugs known to man.

Did u see a movie called Blackboard Jungle?
I am a New Yorker, except for 5 years and one day in Arizona.
Here, we have tended to keep to ourselves, but not cause trouble.
Except for once when someone took a shot at me
and shot out my left driver 's door window, I 've never had any trouble.

I Like 1981 wrote:

I was too soft for the city, if you want my honest opinion, David.
I enjoyed books and learning and I made quite a big show of
letting everybody know about it. I blatantly showed no interest
in sports and even once when a jock asked me "Why don't you
like sports you queer?", I just replied "Because they don't do me
any good." He just laughed.

I have raised that question with them also,
pointing out that it is an exercise in futility.
Whoever wins or loses wins or loses nothing, unless he bets.

If one wishes to wager, it 's faster and easier to flip a coin,
shoot craps or play poker; maybe bet a horserace.
I have taunted them (gently, in good fun) that baseball
is only competing to see which group of strangers can run around in circles better.

Qua issues of good health: lift weights, swim, or run around the block.
There 's no reason to throw balls around.

I Like 1981 wrote:

Absolutely no getting through to those people.
Of course, over here we don't describe them as being "jocks"
as Jock is actually an offensive term for a Scottish person.
We call them Chavs, morons or just bullies and thugs. But I'm
guessing it's mainly Americans on this board and as I am not a Scot,
I do not mind using the word "jock" on this thread.

In America, my understanding of "jocks" is: guys who r involved in sports
and athletically skillful.

I Like 1981 wrote:

Yes, your suggestion that I should have learned martial arts
did cross my mind at some points and I was planning to do karate
but the size of some of the people that picked on me made me
believe that I would not even be able to take them down even
with a weapon. One of the guys was 6'4" and about 200 lbs. at the
age of 15. It'd take a LOT more than a few months of martial arts
training to have whupped his ass. I didn't really have much faith
in my own abilities either so I chose not to react through violence.
I wasn't small but I was far from big and tough.
Beating up the bullies was out of the question at the time.

I understand.
I was conversing with a police officer over dinner a few nites ago,
who told me of a guy who took a rifled slug in the chest
out of a 12 gauge shotgun and was still resisting when he got to the hospital.

I Like 1981 wrote:

Sorry I can't answer all of your questions now, time is running a bit thin for me.
But I will inform you that my high school grades were reasonably impressive
and I scored all A's in my subjects apart from Biology in which I got a "B".

Very good grades. Do u have an area of academic interest?

I Like 1981 wrote:

One of my bullies actually didn't even scrape a single C, so he
gained no qualifications at O-Level/GCSEs. I thought about going
up to him and calling him a ******* dumbass but I guess the smug
feeling inside me of at last having got one over on him in life
made me feel satisfied enough.

Who was it that said: "the best revenge is living well" ?

I Like 1981 wrote:

Fighting was not necessary anymore. I had achieved what I
needed to achieve, and for my Sixth Form days, I changed to a
different school as I had to get out of high school. Things were
slightly better there and I did make a few good new friends,
although there was the slightly unwelcome feeling at first of
having to intrude into other people's well-established social
circles. Still, at least I was out of high school.

When I joined Mensa (whose origin is of 2 English barristers in 1945),
tho I was not an extrovert, at my first meeting thereof,
I knew that the logic of the situation
required that I shoud jab my right hand forward, march up to a total stranger
say "My name is David. I 'm a new member; this is my first time here"
however uncomfortable that was; predictably: it worked.

I Like 1981 wrote:

Yes, the jocks did call my sexuality into question numerous times.
Just the usual insults like "fag" and "queer" really, these people are
very predictable. Plus I was not seen with many girls due to my
lack of confidence and of course, the incident with the notorious
Heike had kind of put me off talking to girls having gotten to see
the aggression of one of them at my own expense.

Very sad. Did u consider home-schooling?

I Like 1981 wrote:

Regarding your final point, I don't understand.
How does my post sound like gay bashing? Please clarify.

I meant that it sounded like the jocks and the girl tormented u for being gay,
or that u are straight but, in error of perception, thay thought that u were gay.
I did not mean that anything that u said was "gay-bashing."
I thought that u might have fallen victim to that.

I Like 1981 wrote:

I did not intend to cause any offence - I didn't realise it either -
but if my post may have possessed those sorts of overtones,
please be made aware that it is not intentional. I have nothing
against any kind of people.

U did not cause any offense whatsoever. I am sympathetic to your former plight. I 'm on YOUR side.

I Like 1981 wrote:

Except for JOCKS!!!!! But I have reasons to hate jocks.
I only hate those who do me harm, not those who I choose to hate out of spite.

Does any good come out of that?
U r beating yourself up for their mistakes. Stop punishing the victim.
In my opinion, u have already suffered enuf.
If u feel that u MUST, then (logically) u shoud avenge yourself upon THEM, not upon yourself.

I Like 1981 wrote:

Best regards,
i_like_1981

Likewise.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Thanks for your kind words, David. You seem like a good, intelligent guy too and I like the way you address my entire posts. I've known people to just pick out bits of posts they don't like or which disagree with their opinions and base their entire response on slandering those bits - this hasn't happened to me but I have seen it happening before.

Now then, regarding my selection of 1981. Well, I guess you'd have asked the same question had I picked any other year, but I so happened to be born in the year of 1981 and I also like many songs from the year of my birth, like Ghost Town by The Specials, Ultravox's hit Vienna and of course, Under Pressure by Queen and David Bowie. I'm not really obsessed with 1981 in particular in real life, although I am a big fan of anything to do with the Eighties. I do not like the music we get today, even in the slightest, because it's just aimed at materialistic teenagers who only care about showing off to their friends and who only want loud party music to listen to in hopes of appearing cool. Most mainstream music of today is **** and although some of the female artists are very sexy (women celebrities are a lot better looking now than they were in the 80's, I'll grant you that), most of their music material is garbage that's been done countless times before, like breaking up with boyfriends and problems at parties. The Saturdays are a good example of the "all looks, zero substance" music image of today. So whenever I hear a song, I prefer to take myself back in time when it was all about the music and not just about the money and gaining recognition. Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody is probably my favourite song - a truly majestic piece, the like of which was never done before and has not been equalled since.

I never saw the movie Blackboard Jungle - I never even heard of it before you mentioned it. Although I was an avid movie watcher back during my high school years and I remain that way now. Movies are great fun and allow one to immerse oneself in an alternative reality, connect with characters, follow their stories and even enter a whole new world. We still get great movies coming out today - Gran Torino is a good example of a modern classic that has been released in the last 12 months, but I am definitely not alone in saying the music today is garbage. I own only a few CDs which are compilations of old music tracks - the rest of my music is on vinyl records which I was given by my father, also a big music follower, which give me a huge catalogue of hits from around the late 60's to the very early 90's which I love to listen to every now and again.

"Academic interest"? Well, I was keen on math - call me sad, but big numbers used to fascinate me. I was also interested in geometry, algebra and data handling - several important subdivisions of math which I excelled in during my final exams at 16. I also enjoyed studying German and can speak it fluently today, as can be seen in some of my contributions to other sites. I have not yet visited Germany but I am planning to go to Berlin for a visit to a hostel next February, which will be a four night stay. It would be good going there at last, as the main ways in which I have acquired my language skills over the past 16 years have been through watching films in German, reading German books and one-on-one tuition outside of school. Oh yeah, and how could I forget what I learned IN school?

I did actually think about home-schooling but I did not have the nerve to ask my parents about it. This would have given them extra trouble for my lack of social skills and it would have cost money to have teachers come to my house every day to teach me. It would also have given the jocks victory and show them that they had broken me. I did not want to give in. So I never ever mentioned that idea to anyone and took the stick I received knowing that one day, it would all be the past. Now it has been over a decade since I saw any of my high school tormentors. Everything has to become the past one day.

I did not realise that you were accusing the JOCKS of gay bashing. I thought you directed that at me. A misunderstanding on my behalf. Still, jocks are notorious for being homophobic and I don't think I need to remind you on what their views of masculinity are. Basically, to sum it up in their own words:

"ur a fag if u dont like sports and u should be tormented cos your a faggot"

I would expect no more off those garbage piles. They will pick on anyone. As top of the social hierarchy, jocks have complete command over all their fellow teenagers and can victimise any person who they regard as inferior. They will never accept any views other than their own and that is why I tried not to get involved in any serious arguments with them. Because frankly, getting a fair point into their iron skulls is impossible. They didn't have to listen to me - I was a nerd. A loner. Someone they would not even give the time of day. And they certainly didn't want to either. So I shut up, stayed quiet, let them give me crap and tried not to exacerbate my own situation any further by making comments they would have considered pathetic. Basically, anything reasonable.

Thank you for your support. Your responses are most appreciated.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

0 Replies

@aidan,

I assume you're referring to the "dumb jock" stereotype, which I haven't believed in for decades. I don't agree with this negative stereotype. But there is another stereotype that I dare say is far more demeaning and hurtful, and that is the false stereotype that boys who have no interest in sports are "fags." (The word that was commonly used in this context when I was a boy was "sissy." Is Esera Tuaolo a "sissy"?) If I were still a teenager, I'd much rather be stereotyped as being dumb than being accused of having homosexual tendencies. Psychologists (not to mention others) have messed with the minds of nonathletic boys who have no interest in sports, accusing them of something they are not guilty of being. I hear a lot more opposition to the "dumb jock" negative stereotype than I do to the "all nonathletic boys and men who have no interest in sports are feminized males" stereotype. Aside from all that, high-school athletes (at least those in the more popular sports) are not exactly a socially disadvantaged group. At most high schools in this country, the "jocks" rule. So, while I disagree with the "dumb jock" stereotype, my heart doesn't exactly bleed over it, except in the case of those individual athletes who are particularly sensitive guys.

By the way, there is an interesting observation that is relevant to this thread. Throwing a baseball is a physical skill that must be learned by being taught how to throw a baseball properly and practicing with the right method. In other words, boys are not born with an innate ability to throw a baseball properly. Have you noticed that when a boy throws a baseball poorly, what is often said is not "He throws poorly," but is "He throws like a girl," a rather conservative (not progressive) statement that is a deliberate, implied insult that casts doubts on his sexual orientation and manhood. It also says a lot about the way we men view women.

1 Reply

@wmwcjr,

I was referring to this quote by mr i love 1981:

Quote:

teenage girls tend to be a bit ditzy and will go for the hunky footballer than the smaller yet far more intelligent and well-conducted young man

As someone who was a teenage girl at one time, I was referring to the stereotype of the 'ditzy teenage girl who will go for the hunky footballer as opposed to the smaller yet far more intelligent and well-conducted young man.

I'm not ever enamored of people who act stupidly and hurtfully toward other people - and I wouldn't defend them- so no, I wasn't referring to the dumb jock stereotype at all.

Some girls like smart guys. I always have. I have to say a typical 'dumb jock' or 'hunky footballer' hasn't and wouldn't ever interest me at all.

1 Reply

The word "jock" is a prissy euphemism for "jockstraps" which are items of apparrel associated with energetic and risky sport.

1 Reply

@aidan,

Oh, wow. I feel like a total idiot. Don't ask me how; but I assumed, solely on the basis of your username "aidan" that you had to be a guy, not a young woman. Oh, brother. I really messed up and I beg your apology. Believe me, I try to view people as individuals, not as members of a group. Now I understand why you were disturbed by i_like_1981's remark. I happen to be the father of two young women, a 22-year-old and a 19-year-old. My older daughter certainly wasn't ditzy when she was a teenager; and, likewise, the younger isn't ditzy either. They both have excelled academically; and, more importantly, they're both better human beings than I was at their ages. Again, you have my apologies.

Well, folks, have you ever had one of those experiences when you feel like you've got egg all over your face?

2 Replies

@spendius,

Since you and I are not citizens of the same country, I'd like to share just a few observations with you; and I trust that you won't think of me as being condescending. I just want to make sure I'm not misunderstood. The word "jock" is used in different ways by different people in the US. You may have noticed that I enclosed the word in quotation marks when I used it. This is because some people use the word as a pejorative. Although the word doesn't quite have the force of a racist pejorative, I still feel nervous using it out of consideration for individual athletes; hence, the quotation marks. One of my physical trainers at my health club reacted with a pained expression on his face when I once used it in his presence, as if I had just hurt his feelings; so, I apologized to him for using it. Since he was rather smart, I suspect he didn't like the "dumb jock" connotation. Some people use the word to refer only to those individual school athletes who pick on or abuse other students. In other words, following their use of the word "jock," all jocks are athletes; but not all athletes are jocks. But I've also observed that even guys with an athletic background use the word in a nonpejorative way. So, different people use the word in different ways.

0 Replies

My understanding of the word "jock" is a young man who is
successful in his pursuit of competitive athletics, probably
as a member of a team. That need not define his mental proficiency qua non-physical concerns.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Hi. I agree. It's just that people give different shades of meaning to the word.

0 Replies

@wmwcjr,

Quote:

Oh, wow. I feel like a total idiot. Don't ask me how; but I assumed, solely on the basis of your username "aidan" that you had to be a guy, not a young woman. Oh, brother. I really messed up and I beg your apology. Believe me, I try to view people as individuals, not as members of a group. Now I understand why you were disturbed by i_like_1981's remark. I happen to be the father of two young women, a 22-year-old and a 19-year-old. My older daughter certainly wasn't ditzy when she was a teenager; and, likewise, the younger isn't ditzy either. They both have excelled academically; and, more importantly, they're both better human beings than I was at their ages. Again, you have my apologies.

No apologies necessary. And congratulations on raising such fine daughters. They're lucky to have such a proud father who's cognizant of their strengths. I'm sure you tell them how proud you are of them, but you should show them this post. I'm sure it would mean a lot to them.

In terms of the use of the word 'jock' with 'dumb' I was thinking about it and it seems that I've only ever heard that combination applied to males - mostly by males.

I've never heard an athletic girl referred to as a 'dumb jock' by a studious girl or by anyone really.

Do you think that it comes back to male competition?
And then there's the behavior that you described that warrants that sort of description. You know, the leader and his followers who are given the accolades for their athletic performance which increases their arrogance and leads them to believe that they and their minions are allowed to form some sort of 'pack' that can and does prey on people they see as either less able, or loners, or possibly gay, or whatever weakness they can find to attack.

It's really pathetic isn't it? That anyone would want to or feel they need the security of a 'pack'. I guess if they can't be smart - this is a way they can at least belong to something in some way.
My question is - what happens to them after their team sports days are over?

1 Reply

@wmwcjr,

By and from your posts, u present the image of being a very kind man.

David

0 Replies

@aidan,

Quote:

Oh, wow. I feel like a total idiot. Don't ask me how; but I assumed, solely on the basis of your username "aidan" that you had to be a guy, not a young woman. Oh, brother. I really messed up and I beg your apology. Believe me, I try to view people as individuals, not as members of a group. Now I understand why you were disturbed by i_like_1981's remark. I happen to be the father of two young women, a 22-year-old and a 19-year-old. My older daughter certainly wasn't ditzy when she was a teenager; and, likewise, the younger isn't ditzy either. They both have excelled academically; and, more importantly, they're both better human beings than I was at their ages. Again, you have my apologies.

aidan wrote:

No apologies necessary. And congratulations on raising such fine daughters.
They're lucky to have such a proud father who's cognizant of their strengths.
I'm sure you tell them how proud you are of them, but you should
show them this post. I'm sure it would mean a lot to them.

U bring out a good point. A lot of kids (and ex-kids) appear to care about that.

aidan wrote:

In terms of the use of the word 'jock' with 'dumb' I was thinking
about it and it seems that I've only ever heard that combination
applied to males - mostly by males. I've never heard an athletic girl
referred to as a 'dumb jock' by a studious girl or by anyone really.

I think it has a masculine tacit connotation.

aidan wrote:

Do you think that it comes back to male competition?
And then there's the behavior that you described that warrants that sort of description. You know, the leader and his followers who are given the accolades for their athletic performance which increases their arrogance and leads them to believe that they and their minions are allowed to form some sort of 'pack' that can and does prey on people they see as either less able, or loners, or possibly gay, or whatever weakness they can find to attack.

That sounds almost like a criminal group.

aidan wrote:

It's really pathetic isn't it? That anyone would want to or feel they need the security of a 'pack'.
I guess if they can't be smart - this is a way they can at least belong to something in some way.

Well, having friends can be good.

aidan wrote:

My question is - what happens to them after their team sports days are over?

That happened to my cousin, Norma,
whose hi school football jock husband spent many years as a bus driver, then rose to dispatcher.

Rebecca, on the evening of Dec. 22nd, the Opulent Mensan SIG
is sending out a scouting party to explore a lasanya restaurant
in Manhattan @ 20th Street & 8th Avenue. Do u wish to join us?

David

0 Replies

I see my comments about all teenage girls being "ditzy" and only attracted to sport players have met with a fair bit of criticism. Well, I speak from personal experiences. At my school, the attractive girls only ever used to go out and enter relationships with the guys of higher social status, many of whom picked on me before. By no means is this the case at every school in the world but I have not been to every school in the world so I can't make comments or judgments about what happens there and how people act there towards others. Aidan, I know you didn't like my comment and I'm sorry if you took offence, but my time at high school pretty much sucked and I got mocked and held up for ridicule by many people who regarded themselves as superior to me for various reasons - not just playing sport. They liked to rant at me about how I'd never get a girlfriend and how my life would just be a sad, lonely and pathetic one. And as I mentioned, I was brutally and callously attacked by one of the popular cheerleader girls at my school who was friends with many of the jocks and who had no more decency or kindness than any of them. She is an extreme example of a jock female - you can't really call girls "jocks" as very few of them display the boorish, thuggish tendencies the male athletes do, but she did. I would have more respect for people if they had shown more respect for me. I know it was all a long time ago now but unfortunately I have let it take control of my life, wondered whether it's worth bothering with people having been put through that by them and it is for that reason why I do not intend to enter a serious relationship any time soon. I know not all teenage girls are interested solely in the popular, strong males. People of both sexes can be of either high or low social status and the kinder girls can take pity on the less popular boys and act friendly towards them. But generally I can be pretty sure that most girls aspire to be the most popular, to have the "best" boyfriend in their clique and I believe that they can be just as biased as any of the boys and this determination to be the best, a common trait in all people, leads to ostracism and a feeling in lesser-popular boys that they will never be worthy to ask out a girl or even talk to them. It's a common human instinct, I know, but it's one I don't like, even though I know I will never change it. Perhaps I am just jealous that I never was, and still am not, very popular in real life but it helps if I am able to vent out my frustrations and make them known instead of just harbouring them inside me and watching them lead to rage and perhaps other more extreme things. Social cliques can make real bastards out of people at times and this is common in all of them. They make people hate those who are different and believe that only their opinions and styles are the right ones. But it is the ones of higher social status, the jocks and cheerleaders, who tend to abuse their popularity and single out for humiliation the people of lower social status and for that I have many bad things to say about them. Some problems with people will never be solved but it helps to discuss about them.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

2 Replies

@I Like 1981,

I Like 1981 wrote:

I see my comments about all teenage girls being "ditzy" and only attracted to sport players have met with a fair bit of criticism. Well, I speak from personal experiences. At my school, the attractive girls only ever used to go out and enter relationships with the guys of higher social status, many of whom picked on me before. By no means is this the case at every school in the world but I have not been to every school in the world so I can't make comments or judgments about what happens there and how people act there towards others. Aidan, I know you didn't like my comment and I'm sorry if you took offence, but my time at high school pretty much sucked and I got mocked and held up for ridicule by many people who regarded themselves as superior to me for various reasons - not just playing sport. They liked to rant at me about how I'd never get a girlfriend and how my life would just be a sad, lonely and pathetic one. And as I mentioned, I was brutally and callously attacked by one of the popular cheerleader girls at my school who was friends with many of the jocks and who had no more decency or kindness than any of them. She is an extreme example of a jock female - you can't really call girls "jocks" as very few of them display the boorish, thuggish tendencies the male athletes do, but she did. I would have more respect for people if they had shown more respect for me. I know it was all a long time ago now but unfortunately I have let it take control of my life, wondered whether it's worth bothering with people having been put through that by them and it is for that reason why I do not intend to enter a serious relationship any time soon. I know not all teenage girls are interested solely in the popular, strong males. People of both sexes can be of either high or low social status and the kinder girls can take pity on the less popular boys and act friendly towards them. But generally I can be pretty sure that most girls aspire to be the most popular, to have the "best" boyfriend in their clique and I believe that they can be just as biased as any of the boys and this determination to be the best, a common trait in all people, leads to ostracism and a feeling in lesser-popular boys that they will never be worthy to ask out a girl or even talk to them. It's a common human instinct, I know, but it's one I don't like, even though I know I will never change it. Perhaps I am just jealous that I never was, and still am not, very popular in real life but it helps if I am able to vent out my frustrations and make them known instead of just harbouring them inside me and watching them lead to rage and perhaps other more extreme things. Social cliques can make real bastards out of people at times and this is common in all of them. They make people hate those who are different and believe that only their opinions and styles are the right ones. But it is the ones of higher social status, the jocks and cheerleaders, who tend to abuse their popularity and single out for humiliation the people of lower social status and for that I have many bad things to say about them. Some problems with people will never be solved but it helps to discuss about them.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

Will u reveal your first name, for ease of referring to u ?
Mine is David.

It seems to me that u owe it to yourself to cram as much happiness into your life
as u possibly can; this is true of all of us.

I respectfully suggest that u write off your negative experiences
to bad luck and apply your mind to filling your life with the
maximum possible beauty, fun, joy and wealth as possible.
I suggest that u decide what there is in life that u enjoy most
and then seek out groups of people who join u in their appreciation thereof.
Upon meeting them: take the vu that to have a friend u shud BE a friend.
Be generous with your kind words and perhaps with your kind deeds,
if appropriate opportunities therefor present themselves.

Friendships can grow and deepen with time.
"Give a little more than u r asking for and your love will turn the key."
I get the impression that u r in England,
otherwise I 'd have invited u to dinner next Tuesday evening.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Hi David.

Unfortunately I will not reveal my actual name on the internet. If you wish to find out, just send me a private message or email me. For now, just call me i_like_1981.

You raise a good point in saying that I should move on from my negative experiences and start filling my life with happier, more fulfilling activities. However, I wish to inform you that at the moment I'm going through a bit of a "downer" period. This is largely due to the fact Winter is here and my only definite plans for Christmas are a visit to my family on Christmas Day and a low-scale party for New Year where I shall be meeting up with a few friends from work and we'll be playing some old records. Yes, I have insisted that every song played there should come from the 60's, 70's or 80's. Nothing new. I do try and busy myself with some interesting activities apart from sitting round my place - I go to the pub for a drink every once in a while and I also enjoy country walks during the summer and early autumn. I do try to involve myself in some activities but my interest in entering an intimate relationship continues to fluctuate - sometimes I feel the urge to go out and get to know some women, most of the time I don't feel this way and choose to stay out of this. I really can't see my romantic life receiving a real boost if I can't stick in one frame of mind.

And you're right, I do live in England. Are you serious about the dinner? I think it is a joke. Don't mean any offence if it isn't. You do raise some good points, David, and you make a good person to talk to. My response is - I would try harder to be friendly if I felt I could be, but my problem is, I let past experiences continue to haunt me and affect the way I interact and present myself to people. As you may also have seen from my username and love of the Eighties, I do very much live in the past and there is unfortunately no changing it. When something happens to you, you can't really get rid of it completely. It lingers on in your mind. When a person wrongs you, it makes you think that tiny bit less about people in general. You seem a friendly guy to talk to, David, but unfortunately not everybody is that way. And many of the people I had to put up with in my younger days did not want to listen to what I had to say. That is why I generalise and stereotype a lot now, as I feel sometimes things I say won't make any difference. But I'll keep your words in mind and see if I can apply your advice in any real way to my life. You speak the truth. Perhaps I should rise above the past. But it will take time as it's become a defining characteristic of myself.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

1 Reply

Welcome Sports Haters!

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know