Welcome Sports Haters!

Bullshit. Maladjusted? What do you mean by that?

Going to the gym puts some exercise into the day of a bunch of lazy fatasses. I was in PE up until the 11th grade, when I started swimming; I never hated it, we had a good time, it was productive and I learned things about myself, not to mention new skills.



Keep telling yourself that. It takes a lot more than a big ego to be successful in sports. But you wouldn't know much about that, would you?

Cycloptichorn

mich ga

You might want to consider whose pyramid of success that was; John Wooden's, before criticizing it as hooky. Wooden has likely achieved more in his single lifetime than you could do in a hundred lifetimes and he has done so without the nausea inducing adolescent attitude that you exhibit. He is a member of the Basketball Hall of Fame as both a player and as a coach. His 10 NCAA National Championships in 12 years while at UCLA are unmatched by any other college basketball coach.

and you have achieved just what?

so even a fool like you could learn something from Wooden.

btw sports are a rite of passage, but note that i did not say that they were the only rite of passage that graduate youth into full members of adult society. these rarely exist today and that has lead to what you see all around you, viz., people with no understanding of who they are within a larger context of the world, what they need to do to bring happiness to themselves, or how to act in the social order; that would be you. i know its tough on guys like you because you don't have the maturity of an adult but you ought to grow up a little and learn how to think like an adult because you are failing to do so yet.

too bad about your local high school football players, because i hold three graduate degrees in the physical sciences, own two companies and i likely pay more in taxes than you actually take home, so maybe being a smart ass got you nowhere and the things i learned on the playing field got me everything.

the sad thing about you three knuckleheads is that now even years later you are warped by your experience in gym class. it smacks of immaturity, of not being able to accept life for what it is and dealing with it. i don't hate any of you clowns, instead i pity you for not being able to let go of your past.

I think there's about a 90% chance that the last two posters are in fact the same person.

Cycloptichorn

as long as it is not massagetto! but i can detect the anger in these posters seething under the surface after all those years of past slights unresolved. that is what makes it so pitiable.

here we are, two social revolutionaries who get attacked by kids because we grasp the positive aspects of what the greeks pronounced over 2,400 years ago.

I believe that I owe the readers of this topic an apology. I didn’t begin posting comments at any website until February of this year; so, I’m still relatively new at participating in exchanges on websites. I realize that I was not very civil. I have been under a great deal of stress, but that is not an excuse. I don’t apologize for any of my views, but I do apologize for the way I expressed them. My replies are embarrassing. I should have waited at least a day before posting any of them. I should have kept my cool so that I would have been able to initiate a dialogue, but all I succeeded in doing was to start a heated shouting match.

I owe kuvasz an apology for referring to him as a jerk; and for addressing him in a confrontational, bellicose spirit from the very beginning when I didn’t even know the guy personally. I think I may have possibly misjudged him. Reading and posting replies at a website really is not the best way to communicate, because there is no facial contact or voice tone; so it’s easy to misunderstand people. What is really sad about all this is that I don’t address people this way. This is not the way I really am. I’m actually a tolerant, friendly guy who’s polite to people. My parents raised me to be a gentleman, but I failed to be one on this occasion. When I posted my comments, I acted as if my inhibitions were removed. I’m certain that if I had talked to kuvasz in person, we would have had a civil conversation without any heated remarks. Again, my apologies to all concerned.

Well, I for one don't feel you needed to apologize for anything.

kuvasz comments, in my opinion, pretty much shows what makes me so apathetic about sports. The whole pyramind of success thing makes me what to barf, and the follow up of telling us that whatever his name is did more in one day than others do in their lives is the kind of all or nothing stuff that turns me off.

In addition, the 'I'm so great, I protected the non-athetic people, even if they weren't my friends, because it was just wrong' sounded so sanctimonious. Jeez, what a great guy.

Not wanting to start any arguments, just voicing the opinion that the personalities of people I've know than love love love sports are ones I just don't want to spend a lot of time with.

Thanks so much for the kind words. But I still think that I should have attempted to initiate a dialogue.

well chai, i forgive your overweaning tooth sucking attitude. i have defended those who cannot defend themselves and risked personal harm, because i endured child abuse in a foster home and refuse to stand by when violence is visited upon others who cannot defend themselves. i did not do that simply in the locker room as teenager, but in the board room as an adult, being fired twice, once for refusing to fire a homosexual who worked for me that my boss wanted fired, and another time for complaining to corporate headquarters when my boss continued to call the black men working for me "frank's n@#$#@'%. both times i lost jobs paying me over $100,000/year. i doubt you have a scintilla of courage to do the same.

there are people who stand up for their principles regardless of the repercussions, and those who run away from discomfort. clearly you are one of the latter. so i don't care about reprobation coming from a moral coward like you.

accepted. most of my high school friends were NOT athletes, but the brainiacs, and greasers who i tutored in math. it was just that i loved sports and was very good at it that led people to consider me an "athlete," with all of its bad connotations for mindlessness.

Your gracious response is appreciated. I was afraid you might not accept my apology. I’m glad there are no hard feelings. Wow, if I had known about your background, I never would have railed at you. I’m very sorry that you suffered abuse when you were a kid. I’ve personally known several people who were victimized by one form of childhood abuse or another. You might appreciate this: When she was a college student in the early 1960s, my sister knew one of the athletes there who was on both the hockey team and the football team. He had an anger management problem because his father had abused him psychologically in rather cruel ways. He was a fierce competitor on the playing field and the ice rink; but when the game was over, he was a pacifist who controlled his anger. Knowing that he was a pacifist, smaller men on the campus would try to get him into a fight; but their contemptible provocations would always fail. Had he not been afraid to have children, he and my sister might have gotten married. I really wish that I could have met the guy. He would have been a great brother-in-law. I commend you for sticking up for others, even at a cost to yourself. I’ve always admired morally courageous people. When she was in college, my sister was blacklisted by the John Birch Society as a supposed Communist simply because she had launched a petition drive to urge the national headquarters of her sorority to drop their racist bylaws so a Jewish friend of hers could join. While the Jim Crow laws were still in effect, the father of a friend of mine who was an attorney represented blacks in discrimination lawsuits. Because of death threats that his family received, his children sometimes had to be escorted to school by the police. I’m very sorry that you were negatively stereotyped just because you were an athlete. When I was a teenager, a judo instructor wrongly stereotyped me as having homosexual tendencies simply because I was physically weak and lacked self-confidence, despite the fact that I had no effeminate mannerisms whatsoever. (I’ve been happily married for nearly 30 years, and have fathered two children.) So I know what it’s like to have negative traits wrongly ascribed to you. Again, sorry I misjudged you. Best wishes.

I was an athlete, hockey player, netball, diver.... pretty much all sports as a kid and got a scholarship at a sports school in the UK. It was something I was good at - enjoyed - had my own "feel good factor" - took my A'levels - wasn't the smartest knife on the block - but did OK - academic was never going to be my strong point - certainly wasn't daft tho.

sport gave me a huge release for frustrations in school and built my confidence up enormously

I don't do any sports at all these days for many reasons - but I know for a lot of people, especially my eldest child, that using a sport (namely boxing for him - NOT competitive - but working out) and any other sport you could possibly imagine in the past - it helped him and still does when he needs to let off energy.

Lots of people do that - sports isn't all about winning and glory - it can make you feel real good - if it makes you feel good - then how can it be bad?

Not that I have "strong" opinions on whether anyone should or shouldn't do it as they get older - but just pointing out that sport is not "all competitive" - or "all about winning" - the team building, the camaraderie (I've never been exposed to negative personally) - that was a good thing. My little kid is sporty and my friends kids are rubgy players etc ( and tho they can be some of the toughest sportsmen on the planet - they are mostly gentle giants - few oddbods - but the ones I know, good guys - tho they can sink a few beers too many <ahem>

I'm glad we have sport in our schools - I work in a primary school and know the only PE kids get is at school - its fun, its playful, it's healthy for them. They don't have to do it right thru senior school - but all kids should be given the opportunity - it's part of their education - and if they didn't get the opportunity or "right encouragement" - a lot of our kids would never see the light of day being in classrooms and at home stuck in front of a TV. Yep, it should be balanced. No - there should never be bullying. That shouldn't happen in any educational setting..... it's sad, cowardly and pathetic - but it happens in life. I don't believe I have ever seen that in the sports I did - or my brothers either..... I'm sure it must have. Tough one. My opinions are only based on my experience.

Even doing swingball in the garden with the little fella - that's sport - he loves it - so do I. Should be encouraged - should be fun - those who can excel will, just like those who are academic will excel if they choose to work hard in school. Teachers/coaches have a big responsibility - like anything in life - there's prolly a few bad apples, but I've met a lot of decent ones... seen a couple round the board here too.


(just an opinion from a pretty sheltered life I guess.)


Welcome to the new folk here - A2K is a great place to be - give it a chance. Lotta fine folk here all over the board.



edit: when I watch my country play rugby - I do cheer loudly and shout at the screen - it's a passion - when I watch the olympics, I get tears from watching people achieve, disabled and able-bodied - when I watched the London marathon yesterday I was on the edge of my seat. That's kinda a nice feeling - more passion that competitive tho.



<back in my box now> nitey nite

well, what can I say? you're just a prince of a guy.

what is an "overweaning, tooth sucking attitude"?



oh, I looked it up, and basically it describes you, the arrogant hero who saves the day, and thinks others who aren't like them need to be saved.

I make no apologies for not liking sports. I don't care for any of what you, izzie or others like about it. Not meaning that as an insult, that's why I put Izzie's name in there, as I repect her, as far of what I've read what she says here. So, if I can say I don't care for what Izzie likes, there isn't any way you can be insulted by my saying I don't like something you have high value for.

What I don't care for, and I've noticed this in a lot of people into sports, is this aggressive nature you obviously have k.

I don't care to be around aggressive people, braggarts, or sports fanatics. No excuses, I just don't like it.

As far as your doubts as to my morals, or courage, again, I'm not into competition. You win, you're much more moral and brave than I could ever imagine to be.

You're just all around a better human being.

See, you can't enjoy hearing that though, because you didn't have to defeat me to have me say it.

anyway....

you know what I've discovered I really love?

yoga.

I've been going about 4 times a week for the last month, and it brings to me what I've been searching for, for years.

Noncompetitive, inward looking, quiet, raising awareness, increasing ability to observe, turning the mind toward peace. It's heavenly.

You know what one of my favorite things about practicing yoga is? After a class, if you want to talk to someone, both of you naturally find yourself talking in a gentle whisper. The focus is totally on what the other person is saying. That peace and focus starts to engrain itself into the rest of your waking hours.

It's 180 degrees away from what sports represents to me.

Hey gal - I reckon that would do me the world of good now - a friend of mine goes to yoga each week (she's the headteacher) and it completely keeps her sane. Haven't managed to pluck up the courage to go there yet.... but one day maybe. I hear it's calming like meditation and gets the body and mind in synch - really need to give it a go. <waves and hugs> x

Kuvasz, just to provide clarification and perhaps a little understanding, I did not submit my replies under two different usernames. All of my posts were submitted under the username "wmwcjr." I swear that is the truth. The anger you detected in my posts has flared up only within the last two years, and is related to a personal problem that I'm now forced to deal with (after years of being left on the back burner, so to speak). The source of my anger is not what you think it is, and I certainly would not expect you to know what it is. I still regret that I railed at you, but I would also ask you to remember that I am not an enemy of yours. I think that if you knew me, you would not think I'm a bad person. In other words, I'm just pleading for a little understanding. I am not against sports programs in schools. My position is simply that promoting sports is not the same as promoting physical fitness and that there should therefore be two kinds of P.E. classes: (1) an elective traditional sports-centered P.E. class for student athletes and other students who want to participate in competitive team sports, and (2) a mandatory physical fitness class that encourages nonathletic kids in a supportive way to become physically fit. By the way, if I had read your profile first (which didn't occur to me), I would not have replied to you with anger. What I read was not what I would have expected. I mean that in the good sense.

My apology stands; but after finally reading all of the previous replies, I have reached the conclusion that even if I had initiated a dialogue with all the respect I could muster, the end result probably would have been the same. I fear that I would have been subjected to the same derision, as was Chumley. For the record, I have no problem with people enjoying sports; and I work out at a health club. What I specifically object to are certain cultural aspects that are connected to certain sports. This is a subject that some people cannot discuss calmly with an open mind because they seem to think that sports culture is sacred and is above criticism, yet just about any other institution can be criticized without people responding with quite as much vitriol. There is a difference between speaking well of sports as a form of recreation, and forcing it upon others who don't want it and saying that those who do not participate in sports suffer deficiency and end up being inferior. This is, in fact, a supremist attitude. I don't believe that social problems can be blamed on kids who don't participate in sports. There are a great many men who have made great contributions to society and mankind (including those who have been very courageous) who never participated in sports. What I've just said in no way denigrates those who participate in sports. Far from it. I'm merely defending those who don't. Today boys who have no interest in sports still have their masculinity questioned, despite the fact that homosexual men have always participated in sports, as well as just about everything else. Traditional sports-centered P.E. classes do not encourage nonathletic kids to get in shape. If anything, the nonathletic kids are discouraged by the humiliation they experience from doing any sort of physical activity. What we need for nonathletic students are physical fitness classes that are centered around calisthenics, weight lifting, and other activities. The traditional sports-centered P.E. classes can be kept for the athletic kids as an elective. Is that such a radical proposal? Like so many others, Kuvasz says that football builds character. Yet he mentions defending nonathletic classmates from bullyng athletes, for which he is to be commended. Did those athletes who bullied have character? It would be interesting to ask why they were bullying in the first place. Cycloptichorn rightly criticized me for attacking someone on the Internet whom I hadn't even met, but then turned around and did the same thing to me. I wonder if he would have been as upset if I had attacked someone with whom he disagreed -- say, someone who doesn't like sports. I understand why Kuvasz and Cycloptichorn were mad at me, but I don't understand the depth of their anger. Instead of asking me to clarify my position or trying to talk things out with me, they reacted as if I were a personal enemy who had just uttered the vilest insult to one of their loved ones. Apparently, in their view, anyone who criticizes any aspect of sports is an evil person who should be ridiculed and have his every motive questioned, as if he is such an imbecile who has nothing intelligent to say. This is not the attitude of an open-minded person. If someone doesn't like sports, why do you care so much about it? Why not have just a "to each his own" attitude? Kuvasz, I've checked some of your other posts, and have seen how liberal you are. I used to be rather liberal too when I was young, but have grown more conservative over the years without fully embracing the conservative ideology. What is truly ironic is that on the issue of P.E. and football, you are not a tolerant, open-minded, easy going liberal. Instead, you are a militant right-wing conservative.

How can anybody hate sport? It's ace. All of it. Taking civilisation and Christian values to the barbarians.

They said that 500 million Chinese were watching the snooker and learning to be gents.

I never said I hate sport. As I said in my last post, I work out at a health club. What I said was is that I'm critical of certain cultural aspects and attitudes that are associated with certain (but not all) sports, which is a far cry from hating sport. But my point of view is not acceptable to some because they are completely intolerant, and the reason they are completely intolerant is because sports is their god and anything and everything that is associated with sports (no matter how offensive, from a moral point of view) must therefore be regarded as being above critical evaluation. Any such critical evaluation is regarded by them as if it were blasphemy. These people cannot be reasoned with and do not want debate. All they will do is respond with derision and personal insult to anyone who even departs only slightly from the sports party line. Even the very idea of having a topic for so-called "sports haters" is offensive to them and is likely to drive them into a fury. Never mind that the sports media (most of which is not even a journalistic institution because they never do any investigative reporting) does their bidding. Oh, no. There must be strict conformity everywhere in the name of a sort of march-in-step, don't-question-anything-we-say cultural conservatism. (And, no, I'm not a political liberal. I'm not talking about politics.) Where do you think the "jocks versus nerds" phenomenon came from? Who started that? Sports are part of the human mosaic, but sports alone do not and cannot provide the moral foundation of a society. This country was founded on a Judeo-Christian value system, which had nothing to do with sports. Did sports ever humanize Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union? (Again, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with sports in and of themselves.) If sports are so ennobling, why do primitive tribes that practice their own sports never advance century after century, but remain the same? There are individual athletes who have Christian values, and I honor them. There are also many who don't who nonetheless are put on a pedestal, even when they mistreat or victimize others.

But you can't take a view in reaction to the "some" who are as you say.



The British sport journalists can't be accused of that.

I didn't say you hated sport BTW. I was addressing the thread title.

Right you is: "promoting sports is not the same as promoting physical fitness"

Cool on the Yoga, it’s free at the Technical Institute I teach at, so I’ll be taking it up meself!