43
   

Obama..... not religious?

 
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 12:47 pm
@JTT,
Bill said:
Quote:
As long as he is not trying to enforce this silliness by law such as Bush #2 did or push this silliness onto the public in some other manner I could care less in any regard.


JTT said:
Quote:
Bill didn't need to learn here on A2K that "I could care less" is grammatical. His internal grammar told him so.

But does it mean the same thing as I COULDN'T care less? It doesn't seem to me that it would. It seems to me that he must care some little bit - because he could still care less - instead of saying - I don't care one little bit - in other words- I COULDN'T care less.

And actually - I agree with Bill. Although I'd say - I couldn't care less about his religious affiliation or lack of it in terms of his job as the president.
I do care though that his integrity be respected and remain intact. At least until he proves himself undeserving of that.
But hey - that doesn't seem likely to happen does it- even among the people who voted for him.
JPB
 
  3  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 12:48 pm
Can someone please explain to me what a religious person acts like so I can get a feel for why he doesn't seem religious?

I've never heard him say, or seen him do anything that isn't in keeping with the UCC faith.

If "religious" is now defined as "conservative fundamentalist" then I agree -- he doesn't seem like a conservative fundamentalist, but to say that a liberal christian faith isn't christian will get me on my soapbox quicker than just about anything I can think of.

Who the hell are you to say that he isn't a christian? If the man says he's a christian then he's a christian! As far as I know, no one within his faith has thrown him out of the club. And, while it may surprise you that liberal christian faiths exist and that liberal christians exit, why don't you do a little research on his chosen faith before you determine that he's not a christian and is raising his children in the faith of his choice for political reasons.

JESUS! that pisses me off!!!!
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 12:53 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:
but to say that a liberal christian faith isn't christian will get me on my soapbox quicker than just about anything I can think of.

Oh no! We wouldn't want you on a soapbox now would we?!
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 01:02 pm
@Thomas,
hey, Thomas. Just had to walk around the house for a bit to get my BP down. Oxygen, J, oxygen...
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 02:08 pm
@JPB,
What's wrong with your blood pressure? And what's wrong with Obama being a Black Muslim Atheist who once shared a faculty coffee machine with a suspected terrorist-associate?
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 02:12 pm
@Thomas,
Nothing - apparently anything's easier to believe and more palatable than allowing him to believe and state he's a christian.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 02:18 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
Can someone please explain to me what a religious person acts like so I can get a feel for why he doesn't seem religious?

I've never heard him say, or seen him do anything that isn't in keeping with the UCC faith.

If "religious" is now defined as "conservative fundamentalist" then I agree -- he doesn't seem like a conservative fundamentalist, but to say that a liberal christian faith isn't christian will get me on my soapbox quicker than just about anything I can think of.

Who the hell are you to say that he isn't a christian? If the man says he's a christian then he's a christian! As far as I know, no one within his faith has thrown him out of the club. And, while it may surprise you that liberal christian faiths exist and that liberal christians exit, why don't you do a little research on his chosen faith before you determine that he's not a christian and is raising his children in the faith of his choice for political reasons.

JESUS! that pisses me off!!!!


This would have been a really great post...if you had directed it at someone...or at a particular remark.

What is this about...specifically?
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 02:19 pm
I always liked Ticomaya's take on religion:

Religion should be like underwear. It should support you, but never be seen in public.

(My apologies if I'm misquoting.)
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 02:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I took it as a reply to this:

The Pentacle Queen wrote:
On a pure guess, I think it is very likely that Obama isn't a chrisitan....

Obama's ******* well clever, ambitious, smart, he's no doubt been planning this since his degree and recognised how important it was for him to have a christian background.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 02:28 pm
@DrewDad,
I considered replying to that one specifically, but it was only one of many posts that stated that he either isn't a christian (PQ), his church isn't based on religion (okie), or that he doesn't seem very religious (chai).

The UCC has been around since 1957 (I was raised Congregationalist, which is one of the two faiths that merged to form the UCC). Saying that the UCC isn't a religion is ridiculous. Saying that it isn't a christian faith is equally ridiculous. Saying that he doesn't seem very religious is what prompted my question for a definition of what one must act like to seem religious.
0 Replies
 
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 02:36 pm
@JPB,
We didn't say he WASN'T religious, we just said he might not be. Since liberal atheism and liberal christianity are more interchangeable than conservative fundamentalism then of course there's going to be speculation.

I understand that it is hard for some people to bear that idea now they've been granted with a liberal christian president they can relate to.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 02:40 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
He became a Christian before he got his degree... (law degree, anyway).

I posted some stuff from his book a couple of pages back -- it shows that he got involved with the local churches through his community service work but then was genuinely touched by what he saw there.
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 02:42 pm
@sozobe,
Quote:
I understand that it is hard for some people to bear that idea now they've been granted with a liberal christian president they can relate to.


I'm not taking this back, but I should also stop hoping Obama is atheist. (agnostic atheist, ideally, eh Frank? Wink )
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 02:46 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
speculation based on what action? What has he done or said, specifically, that isn't in keeping with his chosen faith?

I posted this earlier from wiki...

Quote:
According to the 2007 yearbook, the United Church of Christ has approximately 1.2 million members and is composed of approximately 5,518 local congregations.

The UCC maintains full communion with several other mainline Protestant denominations and participates in worldwide ecumenical efforts. The UCC has historically favored progressive, or liberal, views on gay rights, women's rights, and other issues. Congregations have extensive, perhaps definitive, authority over matters of doctrine and ministry, though, and may or may not support the national body's theological or moral stances.


What in there has he not followed or espoused?
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 02:53 pm
@JPB,
It's just that
Quote:
historically favored progressive, or liberal, views on gay rights, women's rights, and other issues
do not NEED to be specifically christian- the same set of values can be easily secular, yet one would NEED to be christian to gain presidency, so therefore it is plausible that he may not be christian. On the other hand, he may well be a christian, and that would be jolly nice for everyone who is also a liberal christian.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 02:54 pm
@shewolfnm,
shewolfnm wrote:

Is he really going to be the first president to begin removing this country from its incredible ties to christianity?

I hope so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep2u4xvYhjw&eurl=http://pinnacleheadlinenews.weebly.com//quote]
Ha, that's interesting. I think he's trying to save religion from itself.

Maybe Obama's got a superman complex. He seems to be trying to rescue everything on the planet, even religion.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 03:15 pm
@aidan,
JTT said:
Quote:

Bill didn't need to learn here on A2K that "I could care less" is grammatical. His internal grammar told him so.


Aidan replied:
Quote:

But does it mean the same thing as I COULDN'T care less? It doesn't seem to me that it would. It seems to me that he must care some little bit - because he could still care less - instead of saying - I don't care one little bit - in other words- I COULDN'T care less.


Yes, it holds the same meaning, Aidan. Idioms are funny things.

Quote:


Mark Israel

The idiom "couldn't care less", meaning "doesn't care at all"
(the meaning in full is "cares so little that he couldn't possibly
care less"), originated in Britain around 1940. "Could care less",
which is used with the same meaning, developed in the U.S. around
1960. We get disputes about whether the latter was originally a
mis-hearing of the former; whether it was originally ironic; or
whether it arose from uses where the negative element was separated
from "could" ("None of these writers could care less..."). Henry
Churchyard believes that this sentence by Jane Austen may be
pertinent: "You know nothing and you care less, as people say."
(Mansfield Park (1815), Chapter 29) Meaning-saving elaborations
have also been suggested: "As if I could care less!"; "I could care
less, but I'd have to try"; "If I cared even one iota -- which I
don't --, then I could care less."

Recently encountered has been "could give a damn", used in the
sense "couldn't give a damn".

An earlier transition in which "not" was dropped was the one that
gave us "but" in the sense of "only". "I will not say but one
word", where "but" meant "(anything) except", became "I will say but
one word."

Other idioms that say the opposite of what they mean include:
"head over heels" (which could mean turning cartwheels, i.e. "head
over heels over head over heels", but is also used to mean "upside-
down", i.e. "heels over head"); "Don't sneeze more than you can
help" (meaning "more than you cannot help"; "help" here means
"prevent"); "It's hard to open, much less acknowledge, the letters"
(where "less" means "harder", i.e. "more"); "I shouldn't wonder if
it didn't rain"; "I miss not seeing you"; and "I turned my life
around 360 degrees" -- not to mention undisputedly ironic phrases
such as "fat chance", "Thanks a *lot*", and "I should worry".

http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxcouldc.html


0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 03:15 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
The Pentacle Queen wrote:

It's just that
Quote:
historically favored progressive, or liberal, views on gay rights, women's rights, and other issues
do not NEED to be specifically christian- the same set of values can be easily secular, yet one would NEED to be christian to gain presidency, so therefore it is plausible that he may not be christian.


And this is precisely what triggers my climb up onto the soapbox. If one states that they are a member of a certain faith, is an active member of that faith, and walks the walk of his chosen faith then that person is, in fact, a member of that faith.

I've had the same discussion with fundies who says that Catholics aren't christian so this has nothing to do with Obama, per se.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 03:26 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
What in there has he not followed or espoused?



Actually, JPB...

...an argument can be made that any “Christian” who condones homosexual behavior, is a hypocrite...which is equivalent to saying that the person is not really a Christian.

The Bible is unambiguous about how the god of the Bible...the god Jesus worshipped...feels about homosexual conduct. It is, in the opinion of that god...an abomination...an insult to the god.

And the opinion of the god of the Bible should matter to Christians...should it not?

So from that perspective, he is not a Christian...and quite honestly, it sounds as though you are not either.

Can we discuss this?
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 03:31 pm
@shewolfnm,
Somehow I messed up the quoting on my previous attempt at this, so I'll do it again....
shewolfnm wrote:

Is he really going to be the first president to begin removing this country from its incredible ties to christianity?

I hope so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep2u4xvYhjw&eurl=http://pinnacleheadlinenews.weebly.com/

Ha, that's interesting. I think he's trying to save religion from itself.

Maybe Obama's got a superman complex. He seems to be trying to rescue everything on the planet, even religion.

0 Replies
 
 

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