64
   

You can go back in time and prevent a great catastrophe. Which one would you prevent?

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 08:12 pm
@gungasnake,
Gungasnake if you would care to you and your Japanese experts could visit the Smithsonian and view the man power aircraft that had flown across the English Channel by the name of Gossamer Albatross.

Now how must could a flying animal weight in by your so call experts?

Sorry but you do need to read a few good books on real physic badly.
husker
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 08:18 pm
@BillRM,
I think I saw a ..................... bites my tongue
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 08:24 pm
@Ticomaya,
Ticomaya wrote:

Not one "Prevent Bush from being elected" response?


I would go back in time and post this before you. ..


but seriously.. I would see what happened if you removed the witch hunts from history.
That is recent enough to where you could see and chart a difference in people.

I dont know that I am on board with the stopping of slavery, because slavery goes back thousands of years.. hell.. there are still slaves today.


of course I would want to stop what ever happened to the earth that cooked the dinosaurs as quickly as it did.. but that disaster might not be a good choice because that could be the prevention of human life.

Can I prevent the birth of that man who [people thought was god? Jesus? Yeah. That dude. I have always wondered what things would be like if that man was not born, or , people didnt begin to look on him as some kind of profit.

What if Genghis Khan was stopped? That was one murderous son of a bitch right there. He could be considered a natural disaster in and of himself.

But my real vote, after all that rambling would be to stop the Hurricane Katrina. Why? well, other natural disasters did not effect me directly like this one did. There for they do not seem important, even though I know they are.
Im all on board for stopping things and people like Hitler.. but .. honestly.. I didnt see Hitlers behavior so I dont 'FEEL' the same as I do for the people from Louisiana.
If I had to call one or the other more important, I would definately say stopping hitler was more important.. but I dont get the same emotional reaction as I do when I think of Katrina.

eh.


BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 08:56 pm
@husker,
Husker I been very mad at the history channel and their monster search programs and my reaction to their large flying creature was similar to Gungasnake IE no way in this world for roughly the same reasons he gave.

However thank to Gungasnake making me think about the subject I guess they was not completely insane unlike their black hole off the coast of Florida nonsense.

If one human can power a craft across the English channel then mother nature would have no problem producing very large flying creatures and in fact it did so in the far past.


0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 09:34 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Gungasnake flying and gilding are two difference modes of air travel.


That's right. And nature offers no example of a pure gliding creature which ever goes any more than a few dozen yards in the air at most and that's because if all you could do is glide, the first contrary wind you ever encountered, you'd never be able to get back home and your kids would starve.

Uh, duh.......
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 09:47 pm
@shewolfnm,
If you had the opportunity to stop anything in the last 200 years, it has to be WW-I.

Stopping Jesus or Chengis Khan either one would involve unintended consequences beyond your imagination. The Washington Post listed Chengis Khan as the single man whose life had the greatest impact on the history of the last thousand years. Mongols at the time of Chengis Khan invented getting around. Prior to that, nobody in Europe knew that China existed, and vice versa.

Likewise the whole world now knows that you cannot take material things or wealth with you to the next world. The day before Jesus was born, NOBODY knew that or believed it. The word "kurgan" in Russian signifies a kind of a little hill or raised area out in the Eurasian steppeland which is the burial place of some Scythian chief or warrier, and all the stuff he tried to take with him.

You really would not want to read a European history book as it would read if Jesus had never been born.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 10:12 pm
@gungasnake,
The fact that a human was able to pedal a plane across the English channel shoot down you claim that no large heavy creatures could fly today.

And what are you talking about a pure gliding creature, why would it need to be a pure gliding creature?

Mainly a gliding creature but it would need all it strenght to get airborn if it was a very very large flying/gliding animal. It would save it small bird type flying for getting into the air.

And what nonsense are you talking about only a few yards? My little aircraft could climb and glid for miles on end with no power riding the thermos with a fairly large wing loading factor of 16 pounds per SQ foot,so why would any gliding animal be more limit then a 500 pound ultralight?

Once in the air even a very large animal could achieve a wing loading of far less then 16 pound per sq foot and have no problem gliiding and riding thermos.

Such animal that you are claiming can't exist had exist in the past with the same value of G as been part of the universe since the first few nano seconds after the big bang and gravity forces uncouple from the other forces of nature.

Oh well you can get you information off websites selling a viewpoint that is not support by any of the known facts or you can go to a public library and begin to read some science books instead.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 11:06 pm
@gungasnake,
You really would not want to read a European history book as it would read if Jesus had never been born.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gungasnake I would bet my soul hell I am betting my soul that no such person as the bible Jesus ever existed in the real universe.

All the ideas behind the stories concerning him and his virgin birth were known to be in place for hundred of years before his so call birth.

You can not go back and save or kill a fairy tale.
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 11:36 pm
@BillRM,
the rise of the first government..
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 06:10 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
The fact that a human was able to pedal a plane across the English channel shoot down you claim that no large heavy creatures could fly today.


The claim is made by Japanese scientists and similar claims have been made by American scientists who have looked at the situation in the past. The (theoretical) limit was 80 lbs; the real world limit is around 25 - 30.

What YOU are talking about is a top human athlete with no fat, furiously peddling a device made of mylar and ultralight man-made materials and managing to keep it ten feet over the water until he collapsed exhausted on the other side of the English channel, 20 miles away. A real flying creature has to be able to fly better and with less effort than that and does not have a carbon fibre body to do it with.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/3352699/Pterodactyls-were-too-heavy-to-fly%2C-scientist-claims.html

Quote:

Pterodactyls were too heavy to fly, scientist claims


By Richard Alleyne, Science Correspondent
Last Updated: 6:42PM BST 01 Oct 2008
ss
Artist's impression of a pterosaur, the 'dinosaur' known as a pterodactyl

They carried away Raquel Welch in One Million Years BC and were ferocious in the Jurassic Park series of films.

* Dinosaur myths exploded?
* Giant prehistoric geese the size of small plane
* Dinosaurs survived two mass extinctions

But now it seems pterodactyls, the terror of the prehistoric skies, may have struggled to get off the ground.

The new research claims that the ancient reptiles, which could grow to the size of small aeroplanes, were too heavy to fly - even with their massive wings.

The problem, according to a leading scientist, is that they could not flap fast enough to create the thrust to keep their enormous bulk airborne.

The 'dinosaur' popularly known as a pterodactyl is actually called a reptile called a pterosaur, which is Greek for flying lizard.

It existed alongside the dinosaurs between 251 and 65 million years ago, and were thought to be the biggest creatures to ever take to the air.

The fossilised remains of one example had a wing span of more than 15 metres.

But Katsufumi Sato, a Japanese scientist, who collected data from five large birds including the world's biggest, the wandering albatross, has calculated that it was physically impossible for them to stay aloft.

The University of Tokyo professor claims that the largest animal capable of soaring across the sky unaided could have weighed no more than 40kg (88lbs) or the size of a labrador dog.

Prof Soto, who reported his findings in New Scientist magazine, travelled to the Crozet Islands - halfway between Madagascar and Antarctica - and attached accelerometers, devices the size of AA batteries which measure thrust, to the wings of 28 birds from the five species including the albatross which is a soarer like the pterosaurs were thought to be.

Unlike turkeys or bustards, whose short wings are good for quick take-off but not for soaring, these larger birds fly long distances using dynamic soaring - they ride changing wind currents without moving their wings.

But when the wind dies down, or blows at a constant speed, they have to flap or be pulled down by air resistance and gravity.

The maximum speed a bird can flap is limited by its muscle strength and decreases for heavier species with longer wings.

Prof Sato says animals heavier than 40kg would not be able to flap fast enough to stay aloft. This would explain why the wandering albatross weighs only 22 kg (46lbs).

A bird weighing too close to 40kg would be incredible unstable and "would not have a safety margin to fly in bad weather", he added.

His results, presented at the Third Annual Biologging Science Symposium at Stanford University, in California, are unlikely to win him friends in the dinosaur community, some of whom have criticised his findings.

Palaeobiologists, who reconstruct the flight of pterosaurs, believe they were dynamic soarers with wingspans up to 15 metres across - enough to keep them airborne even if they weighed almost a quarter of a ton.

Dr Mike Habib, of Johns Hopkins Medical School in Maryland, said "his 40-kilo threshold is problematic" when it comes to predicting the flight of pterosaurs.

He said although they were built like albatrosses - only four times heavier - differences in anatomy, physiology and environment must all be taken into account.

One possible theory is they would rely on thermals to stay aloft having dropped off the edge of a cliff. However, evidence that they could walked for considerable distances has also been discovered.

Another theory is that their wings were so large that, relatively speaking, wing load was low. If a pterosaur spread its wings, staying on the ground would have been more of a problem than taking off.

Pterosaurs vanished along with the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, after a possible asteroid impact.

gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 06:17 am
@BillRM,
Try doing a few google searches on "william ramsay", an atheistic English scholar who set out to prove that the entire book of acts was a fairy tale and was converted to Christianity by what he discovered. The historicity of Jesus is perfectly sound.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 06:37 am
@gungasnake,
Lord a human is not repeat not a good engine and is not design for power flight in any way or in any manner.

A human power to mass ratio does not begin to compare to the majority of large land animals let alone flying ones!

No man make device with a human in it can compare to what mother nature can and have design in the way of living flying machines either.

Someone had placed silly claims on a website that some so call japanese engineers had proven that there is a limit of 80 pounds for flying animals and yet we have proof that such creatures did exist in the past and no proof that the force of gravity had change in the last 4 billions years and that should offset the real universe?

Silly websites with silly claims are a dime a dozen and I can point out hundreds that claim to had proven that we never did land on the moon for example.

yes I know if a large flying creature would pick you up and then drop you from a thousand feet you last moments would be taken with telling the universe that no such creature could exist.

Edit (Moderator): Entire page of whitespace deleted.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 07:31 am
@gungasnake,
Dr. Mike Habib did not in fact agree with a prof Sato on his limitstion of mass for flying creatures.

There is in fact no agreement at all among experts on how heavy a flying creature can or can not be.

This nonsense kind of remind me of the math that prove that bees could not fly.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 09:28 am
I would say the holocaust as that was just a horrible thing in itself which should not have happened but also because it still affects us today with the whole middle east issue. I mean think about it; if it did not happen then they wouldn't have created the nation of Israel then the whole Palestine/Israel issue would not exist.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 09:29 am
@gungasnake,
There is no historic Jesus as there is zero record of his so call life dating back anywhere near to his so call lifespan.

All the deeds that he is claimed to had done and his so call virgin birth are parts of stories dating far before his so call life span.

Hell it was common to claim that Roman Emperors had virgin births before the time of <Jesus>.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 09:34 am
@revel,
However if the Nazis had not kill the Jews wholesale then the Jewish scientists would not had fled from Germany and they could had ended up as a result with the first atom bomb.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 09:37 am
@BillRM,
If you want some historical figure to claim non-existence for, your best candidate is Charlemagne.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 11:23 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
All the deeds that he is claimed to had done and his so call virgin birth are parts of stories dating far before his so call life span.


What about throwing the money changers out of the temple? You know anything about anybody ever doing anything like that before Jesus' time??
0 Replies
 
KAMRAMNA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 11:48 am
@Ticomaya,
I would think that had the obliteration of Santorini not happened, many things would be different.
0 Replies
 
Mustang
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 11:56 am
My first marriage.
 

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