64
   

You can go back in time and prevent a great catastrophe. Which one would you prevent?

 
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 07:42 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
What the hundreds of witnesses to the resurrection


Funny, to the best of my recollection, there were a couple of roman soldiers who ran away, Mary Magdalyn (who had her own agenda for making sure his body was never found) and, I think maybe one or two other women.

Christians today would be more accurate in calling themselves Contantinians.

He's largely behind what they believe today, and it had nothing to do with religion.
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 07:52 am
@chai2,
It's not just Constantine, Chai, or even the Council of Nicea. It all started with that upstart, Saul of Tarsus, who changed his name to Paul after his conversion in Damascus. What we have today, as far as Christianity goes, has been called by some the Pauline Heresy.
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 07:53 am
@chai2,
oh wait, do you mean the hundreds of witnesses that were part of the writings of someone who wasn't even there at that time?

The hundreds of witness that were written about 20, 30 or more years later?

If there were hundreds of witnesses, please site where I can find these hundreds of individual eyewitness accounts.

oh wait, that's from a book that someone who was trying to rule the entire world commanded monks and scholars to only pick out material that supported his agenda.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 07:54 am
@Merry Andrew,
sorry MA, posted same time as you....yes, I agree with you.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 08:35 am
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

I agree, but would the planet be better off without humans?

BBB


This seems to be a commonality amongst liberals - that the best way to deal with perceived environmental issues, is to simply get rid of people. I won't even bother to participate in the thread other than to point out this ridiculous statement by one of A2K's most blowhard liberals.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 08:36 am
Jesus was seen during a period of forty days after he'd been crucified. Ask yourself how many people have seen YOU in the last forty days...
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 08:40 am
http://www.sheldrake.org

Rupert Sheldrake is a former director of studies for cell biology at Cambridge University who in later life has taken to scientifically rigorous studies of things which you would normally call "paranormal" using statistical methodologies and good experimental design. He has shown to a mathematical certainty that some of the things you would call paranormal, are real.

To my knowledge there is nothing in the bible which violates any sort of a physical or mathematical law. If you want violations of those kinds of laws, you need to be talking to the evolutionites; they specialize in that sort of thing.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 09:33 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Ask yourself how many people have seen YOU in the last forty days...


I'm asking you to site statements from hundreds of people who said they saw Jesus after he rose from the dead.


I could say "hundreds of people saw me scale the Empire State Building last month", but, if I can't get at least 200 of them to verify in front of a witness or in writing they saw me do that, I have no proof.
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 10:06 am
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

I could say "hundreds of people saw me scale the Empire State Building last month", but, if I can't get at least 200 of them to verify in front of a witness or in writing they saw me do that, I have no proof.


I'll back you up on that.

chai2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 10:18 am
@squinney,
ok, there's one.

anyone?
anyone?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 10:43 am
@Merry Andrew,
Merry Andrew wrote:

Glad you made that point, Foxy. Whenever we think of preventing some great historical calamity, we never consider the collateral results of such intervention. Others have already mentoned, for example, that preventing the great evil of slavery in this country could have adversely affected the economic situation today. Would preventing the U.S. takeover of the Hawaiian Islands in 1898 have prevented any attacks on Pearl Harbor in 1941? Maybe. Then what? What would preventing the birth of Hitler have accomplished? We don't know who would have come to power instead. It could have been someone equally depraved , but one so skilled the Allies couldn't defeat him. It's a very slippery slope, indeed.


Exactly. One of my favorite economists, a black man, of course recognizes the injustice, savagery, and inhumanity of slavery in all its forms and is adament that there is nothing to commend it. At the same time he recognizes that if somebody hadn't dragged his ancesters to this country as slaves, he would almost certainly not have acquired a PhD in economics, achieved an influential professorship in an excellent university, and would not be writing a syndicated column read by millions. Instead the odds were great that he would have been born into abject poverty in some poor African nation and would have few prospects to escape from that.

And, as you stated, how many times have we seen the world take down a corrupt dictator only to have that man replaced by a worse one?

And those people trying to make a case for a better world without Jesus of Nazareth, would the world have progressed as far as it has since it seems to be mostly predominently Christian nations that have achieved first world status? Whether or not one professes the Christian faith himself/herself, who among us can know what the world would be like today without all that Christian influence? Japan is the only non-Christian nation I can think of in which all the citizens enjoy first world status, but even Japan was dragged into the first world by the efforts of people of mostly European and American Christian faith.

I think it would be a really scary responsibility to be handed the ability to play God with the world or even a part of it.



BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 11:45 am
@cjhsa,
My cats would be very unhappy if humans was no longer on the planet as then they would need to go back to working for a living, instead of demanding that I get up in the morning to feed them right now.

In fact one of my theories for the human race being created have nothing to do with a god or normal evolution but with the idea that cats decided that they needed a slave race to take care of them and somehow arranged to bring us into existences to serve them.

This theory was born one day as I drag myself out the door to go to work and took note of my cats happily sleeping on my bed with full bellies.
joefromchicago
 
  4  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 12:04 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

You can go back in time and prevent a great catastrophe. Which one would you prevent?

The destruction of the great library of Alexandria.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 12:08 pm
@BillRM,
I severly upset my cat last night when I wouldn't let him stand with 90% of his weight on some part of my body that must have a lot of nerves running through it.

0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 12:20 pm
@BillRM,
There ya go, Bill! On this thread you cn solve that problem easily. Just go back in time and prevent the domestic cat from ever evolving from its somewhat nastier ancestors.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 01:12 pm
@Blickers,
That was my thought as well.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 01:15 pm
@Mr Stillwater,
Yeah tobacco was a great thing! How many people has that killed and is still killing?
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 01:42 pm
I agree wit Stillwater and Foxfyre.

Had Hitler not been born, some other extremist would have taken power in Germany: the social conditions were set for the upsurge of the extreme right, as they were in Italy and Japan.

Had the Japanese not attacked Pearl Harbor, sooner or later the US would have to enter WWII. Actually, the sooner, the better. And the US would not be the superpower it still is, had it not been the absolute victor of that war.

Had the colonists decided not to buy slaves, the US South would have been much less useful to the big push forward the US economy made in the XIX Century... it would have been humane, but economically irrational, given the offer of "products".

Had the US not built the atomic bomb, the Nazi's would have. And atomic research has proved helpful to mankind in many ways, from cancer treatment to energy.

Would the world be a better place without humans? Not for humans!

So the best answer so far is Joe's. The destruction of the library of Alexandria was a big setback for all mankind.

---

I must add. It's quite probable most of us wouldn't be here if any of those long time ago catastrophes did not happen. We are a product of luck... too many circumstances put together.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 04:37 pm
@joefromchicago,
Why the hell did I not think of the burning of the library of Alexandria.!

Any change in major happenings in human history could cause worst end results by paths we can not guess at however I can not see how keeping all the knowledge intact in that wonderful library would not be a gain for all of mankind.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 04:41 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmsigDavid in the very change world you are talking about I can not say for sure if Obama would had become president or not but given what I had seen of him he would had reach a very very high position of one kind or another in this society.
0 Replies
 
 

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