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You can go back in time and prevent a great catastrophe. Which one would you prevent?

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 04:45 pm
@squinney,
I would go back and prevent Jesus from being killed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Squinney you can not change the outcomes of fairy tales.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 05:17 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
I'm in that very special place where I need definitions. Catastrophe. Great. So many options for so many combinations of definitions.
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2008 08:36 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
Natural Family Planning
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 04:02 am
@BillRM,
You apparently havent learned a simple truth about cats, so I will explain it to you.

Dogs have owners, cats have staff.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 04:21 am
Worst catastrophe in the planet's history is still the flood. The Earth's surface was not always mostly water; they're starting to find megalithic structures and remains of cities beneath the waves.

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/phikent/japan/japan.html

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/phikent/japan/japan_6.jpg
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 04:21 am
not to be a party pooper, but why go back in time. there are plenty of great catastrophes happening or waiting to happen right now. difference is that those we actually CAN help prevent or contribute to it in our small ways.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 04:32 am
@dagmaraka,
Quote:

not to be a party pooper, but why go back in time.
there are plenty of great catastrophes happening or waiting to happen right now.
difference is that those we actually CAN help prevent or contribute to it in our small ways.

Which ones r U working on ?


I tried, unsuccessfully, to prevent Obama from getting elected president.



OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 04:36 am
@gungasnake,
Whata u think of the Permian Extinction ?


(That was my least favorite extinction.)
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 07:28 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Bad as claimed, likely much more recent than claimed....
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 08:39 am
@OmSigDAVID,
This type of extinction is what we are most currently vunerable to with the potential of a shift in ocean circulation driven by climate change.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/05mar_arctic.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permian%E2%80%93Triassic_extinction_event
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 08:54 am
@OmSigDAVID,
David, if you've followed Dag's posts about her work, you wouldn't be asking that question.

Actually that'd be another interesting topic but Dag and Nimh have covered off quite a bit of it over the years - what are people doing to prevent future catastrophes.
NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 09:02 am
@ehBeth,
Beth, tell us what the future catastrophes are and I will do my utmost to stop them!
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  2  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 09:04 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Merry Andrew wrote:

Glad you made that point, Foxy. Whenever we think of preventing some great historical calamity, we never consider the collateral results of such intervention. Others have already mentoned, for example, that preventing the great evil of slavery in this country could have adversely affected the economic situation today. Would preventing the U.S. takeover of the Hawaiian Islands in 1898 have prevented any attacks on Pearl Harbor in 1941? Maybe. Then what? What would preventing the birth of Hitler have accomplished? We don't know who would have come to power instead. It could have been someone equally depraved , but one so skilled the Allies couldn't defeat him. It's a very slippery slope, indeed.


Exactly. One of my favorite economists, a black man, of course recognizes the injustice, savagery, and inhumanity of slavery in all its forms and is adament that there is nothing to commend it. At the same time he recognizes that if somebody hadn't dragged his ancesters to this country as slaves, he would almost certainly not have acquired a PhD in economics, achieved an influential professorship in an excellent university, and would not be writing a syndicated column read by millions. Instead the odds were great that he would have been born into abject poverty in some poor African nation and would have few prospects to escape from that.

And, as you stated, how many times have we seen the world take down a corrupt dictator only to have that man replaced by a worse one?

And those people trying to make a case for a better world without Jesus of Nazareth, would the world have progressed as far as it has since it seems to be mostly predominently Christian nations that have achieved first world status? Whether or not one professes the Christian faith himself/herself, who among us can know what the world would be like today without all that Christian influence? Japan is the only non-Christian nation I can think of in which all the citizens enjoy first world status, but even Japan was dragged into the first world by the efforts of people of mostly European and American Christian faith.

I think it would be a really scary responsibility to be handed the ability to play God with the world or even a part of it.



Fox, Merry and fbaezer - why assume that if one catastrophe is averted another, perhaps worse would take its place? We do not know that. Aren't the chances equal that had Foxy's black economist friend remained in Africa that perhaps Africa would be better off? Who says that had we not brought slaves to America we wouldn't have our current economy? Wouldn't the white man have been willing to farm his own land and hire locals? If Hitler had not been born, someone worse might have taken over? You don't know that.

It could be that had these horrific things not happened, good things/ people might have taken their place. Why assume it would have been worse?
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 09:05 am
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
Quote:
This type of extinction is what we are most currently vunerable to with the potential of a shift in ocean circulation driven by climate change.


Ocean currents had nothing whatsoever to do with major extinctions. The solar system and our neck of the galaxy are entirely stable at present and we are in zero danger of any sort of cosmic extinction events at present and for the foreseeable future. The only extinction threats to us are those of our own making.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 09:38 am
@squinney,
Re my post above... Isn't it also a statement of how self-centered the US is to think our nation / economy wouldn't be what it is today had we not had slavery? What if Eli had been born in Africa and we had to (OMG!) import the cotton gin? What if all of the slave labor had been allowed to stay in their own country and make their nation a super power? There may have been other things invented based on their natural resources (I don't think they grow cotton in Africa, do they?) that could have contributed just as much if not more to the world. Other things may have happened that would have led to Obama being the leader of Kenya rather than the United States.

I think that is where some in the U.S. forget that we are one people, one world. But for damn fine luck, any one of us could have been born elsewhere.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 10:10 am
@squinney,
Code: What if all of the slave labor had been allowed to stay in their own country and make their nation a super power?


You're talking about captured enemy tribesmen; they'd have been cooked and eaten...


0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 10:21 am
You can go back in time and prevent a great catastrophe. Which one would you prevent?

The rise of christianity.
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  2  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 10:27 am
@Setanta,
Amen!

BBB
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 11:20 am
@squinney,
I agree - maybe we are both optimists and the others are pessimists.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 11:37 am
@squinney,
squinney wrote:

Re my post above... Isn't it also a statement of how self-centered the US is to think our nation / economy wouldn't be what it is today had we not had slavery? What if Eli had been born in Africa and we had to (OMG!) import the cotton gin? What if all of the slave labor had been allowed to stay in their own country and make their nation a super power? There may have been other things invented based on their natural resources (I don't think they grow cotton in Africa, do they?) that could have contributed just as much if not more to the world. Other things may have happened that would have led to Obama being the leader of Kenya rather than the United States.

I think that is where some in the U.S. forget that we are one people, one world. But for damn fine luck, any one of us could have been born elsewhere.


Nobody is applauding slavery or catastrophes or any evil or bad intentions of humankind though, Squinney. Nobody is recommnending or condoning any of these things. More often than not good intentions produce good things; bad intentions produce bad things.

All we are doing is recognizing and acknowledging the reality that bad things also happen despite the best of intentions, and also good things have resulted from the worst that the Earth and/or the decisions/actions of humankind could inflict upon us.

None of us know what difference altering any of our history, good and bad, might have brought about. Two different comments have been made re eliminating Christianity for instance. We know that many acts and decisions conducted in the name of Christianity cannot be commended by anybody. But also what difference have all the great explorations, universities, hospitals, charities, art, and literature as well as the first sensibilities re unalienable rights arising out of Christianity made? Would we all have been better off? Nobody can say with any certainty how the world would look without it now. Our forefathers included the Christians of the scarlet letter and witch burnings--no way we can condone that--but it was also the pressure from Christians that ultimately brought an end to slavery and many other abominations.

The point being made is that having the ability to play God in the past or present would be precarious at best as to what long range effect any decision might have because we are not privy to see the consequences for the future.

0 Replies
 
 

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