I Am Getting Desperate

Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 07:06 am
As you all probably know, we got a second dog about a year ago. Bailey. He is a boxer and up until a few weeks ago, we passed off his behavior issues as puppy stuff. But he is almost a year old now and much of this stuff should have or should be starting to pass.

Here is a list of things:
* He pees and poops in the house. Even when he is let out. He can make it all day (8-9 hours) because he's done it plenty of times. But this week he started going again while we are home and while we are not.

*He bites and scratches hard when he plays or wants something. I appreciate his attempt to get my attention when he has to go out or needs water or something but he has literally left scars on my arms and legs from his pawing. And when we play he plays so rough! The only one he doesn't hurt when he is around is Adriana (thank god). He is always very gentle with her.

*He refuses to come in or come period. He won't listen. Almost at all. I've tried the treating (tempting him with goodies if he comes in) , the ignoring (leaving him outside alone for a while), the dragging (which is hard if I am not outside with him because he runs as soon as I reach out). The only time he listens is when we tell him to get off the bed and stay off.

*He tears EVERYTHING up. I mean everything. From bags, to toys, to Baby Vapo Rub (yeah, that was scary), tissues, plastic, diapers (dirty and clean)....anything he can get his teeth on, it's in pieces. He's ruined so many things I can't even begin to list. I have been thinking it was my fault because I left it out. But there are things he gets that are not carelessly left out. The baby stuff, for example, is in her room, in the bins I use to hold all her diapers and wipes and what not. He went in there and stole the Baby Vapo Rub. Why? I have no idea. We keep the doors closed when we aren't home but this was in the middle of the night.

*He steals. Poor Adriana can't even enjoy a snack because he's right there, stealing her cookie or her cracker. And he gets up on the counter. And the table.

And to make it all worse, he is influencing Zoe and now she is starting to steal and jump up again. Problems we fixed a long time ago.

We've tried everything. We crated him. He bent the crate trying to get out. And he chewed so hard, so long, he left a puddle of drool on the floor and literally rusted my floor (the metal of the crate on the floor left rust marks) He escaped once (I don't know how) and scratched himself up.

We've tried pinning him down to display dominance over him. When he finally stops fighting (and after many scratches and bites) we tell him good boy and let him up and he just goes running off. And it seems to have no effect.

We've tried spanking (swatting not beating). We've tried yelling. We've tried everything even if we knew it wouldn't work because WE ARE DESPERATE.

He is tearing the household up.

I was his biggest supporter and now I am ready to throw in the bag too.

I don't want to get rid of him but what else can we do?

We cannot afford an in home trainer and from what I understand, the classes they offer at PetSmart and the like don't work very well.

Any advice?
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 07:12 am
@Bella Dea,
I tell you what...

if that dog stole something from Jillian, I would be literally on top of that dog, throwing all my weight on him screaming in his face like I was attacking him.
Bullcrap. He would not do that again.

Funny image.. but Flash did that to us when he first got here.
The first day I saw him get up on the table and take down a piece of food while I was putting out dinner, I grabbed that little cat, flipped him on his back and bent over him staring him in the face and yelling.
Scared the **** out of him.
I have never, EVER had to do that again.
I can leave pieces of chicken out ALL DAY..... no one home.. he wont touch it.

get loud. Be a dominate dog to bailey. No matter how silly it feels.
Dominate him like he was in your pack. This includes yelling, deep voice booming and throwing him on his back. catching him off guard and scaring him. Put his balls to the wall so to speak.

it works.

( gotta go. Got... company today.. I will chat with you later . I promise! )
0 Replies
Bella Dea
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 07:13 am
We do all that and he still keeps reverting back to being the "bad dog".

The funny thing is is that when we go for walks, he walks like he is the submissive dog, with his head even with my legs. He doesn't pull or try to walk me. I don't get it.
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 07:17 am
@Bella Dea,
I believe obediance training could be at least part of the answer. proper and regular training by yourself. sit, stay, come, are just basic commands nothing too flash. but needs to be rgular and properly re-inforced.

A dog without a job will make one up.
Are there any obediance or dog clubs in your area? doesnt need to be anything special just a regular time/pleace to meet people with dogs and get the support of people with similar problems and usually the answers
0 Replies
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 07:56 am
@Bella Dea,
Have you done formal training with either/both of your dogs?

Petsmart training can work quite well, if the owners follow through on the homework and activities and home.

It's about the owner more than the dog/s.

I would not recommend any of the suggestions made by shewolfnm. They're likely to lead to significantly more trouble.

At minimum, have you read any of the books by Cesar Millan or watched any of his programs which talk about developing and managing a pack?

Without you and your husband putting time and energy into training, I'd recommend contacting a breed specific rescue organization and arranging for both of your dogs to be adopted into more appropriate homes.
0 Replies
Bella Dea
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 08:28 am
Yes I've watched Ceasar, and yes we've tried his techniques. And no it hasn't worked. Guess we aren't doing it right.

I guess I can try PetSmart.

It wasn't this hard with Zoe; not even close to this hard. He seems to be doing well one day and then the next he's back to tearing up everything and pissing all over the floor.
0 Replies
Bella Dea
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 08:29 am
Oh and no, there has been no formal training with either dog. Never had a reason to do so. Once Zoe got out of the puppy phase, she became the perfect dog.

And I didn't ask for you to tell me what a bad owner I am (suggesting I get rid of the dogs). I obviously don't want to get rid of Bailey. I am frustrated and looking for some simple ways to begin making this work.
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 08:31 am
@Bella Dea,
Sounds a lot like our second dog, Chewie. I think training is the way to go.
Bella Dea
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 08:35 am
Do you think it has to do with him being the second dog? Maybe he is jealous or challenging Zoe for place in the pack?

I don't know what to think. Half the time he is acting the submissive and half the time he is being wild, destructive, dominant and just plain annoying!
0 Replies
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 08:47 am
Bella - maybe it is a "second dog syndrome". Our first dog was a dream. Easy to train, is so well behaved - a real jewel. My little Biscuit is a terror. I love her - she is so sweet but sometimes she acts like she is inbred (she may be - she was saved from a puppy farm). She just doesn't get it most of the time. In spite of repeated training. She is still just 10 months old so I am giving it more time. Her attention span is about 30 seconds it seems. If that. I get a little frustrated with her on the whole "sit and stay" thing. She has no problem coming. If I call her she is there. Thankfuly.

The whole chewing thing we took care of for both of them by chew toys and bones. When they are inside I give them a Kong - this red thing that is hollow - I fill it with treats and they are very busy working on those things. They love them. I also give them a rawhide bone to chew when they get bored with that. They really do have to have something to do - so if they are going to be inside with me - they have to have those things or they get into trouble.

As far as the potty problems...you need to buy cleaner that has pet odor remover in it. They want to go where they smell the scent. What we have had to do with Biscuit is go back to the crate. For about three weeks I had to re-crate train her. I kept her in her crate then would take her on her leash to their potty place in the backyard. Then I would return her to her crate. When she was inside with me. I kept her leash around my foot so she could not wander. I would take her outside to her potty place and then back inside again. It took a good three weeks - but she got it finally. It was not easy - it was a pain in the butt to be honest but it is worth it now.

Good luck...I know it is frustrating.
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 08:49 am
About the dominant thing. One thing we were told to do is to hold Pistol and Biscuit down when they were puppies. 5 - 10 minutes so they would know that we were the dominant ones. I think it can be done when they are older - it is just harder because they were bigger....but I do not have dominance problems with either of them.
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 09:14 am
mismi made me think of something.....

How about even when 2nd dog is having a good day, go up to him and pin him down the way mismi says?

Maybe an attention span thing....he's learned you act the dominent pack leader when he's wild, but forgets about it when things are going well, causing him to slip into the wild cycle.

I've seen animals go up to another when things are going peachy, and show who's boss. roland does that to otis, a relative newcomer to the household. Hel'll be walking by otis, who's just layin' there being cute, and he'll get over him and firmly grab otis neck, not hurting him, just holding him down. He stands like that for like 20 seconds, then goes about his business. otis doesn mind, he's like, ok, you're the boss, whatever.

Maybe dog #2 needs to learn you're always the pack leader, on good days and bad. Maybe he's seeing your not asserting your authority at all times as slips in your control.

0 Replies
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 10:02 am
@Bella Dea,
0 Replies
Bella Dea
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 12:21 pm
Chai2, that's a good idea.

I might try that.
It is really hard to overpower him when he's wild...he is 70 lbs. And all legs.

So maybe if I do it every day for a while, he'll get it.

I know he isn't biting to be mean or hurt us. And I know he's not being a shithead to be a **** head. He just thinks we're playing. And we are so over playing. I ignore him and he jumps on my back. Oy. This dog is a handful.

But when he's sweet, he's so sweet.

Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 12:28 pm
@Bella Dea,
Setanta wrote in a thread once,that he took an unruly, uncooperative dog, and tied it to a tree in the yard, for perhaps a week. He fed it and watered it, but did not speak or perform acts of kindness. At the end of the period,after he released it, the dog knew set to be alpha and acted accordingly. Behavioral problem cured.
Bella Dea
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 12:29 pm
That seems so cruel!
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 12:45 pm
@Bella Dea,
I don't think you have to throw the dog down on a good day to be dominant.

Being the pack leader is an every day thing.
Training, more training and postive reinforcement.
Some dogs need more leadership than others.

I say daily training and attention.
0 Replies
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 01:02 pm
My dog would have dug up the tree.
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Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 02:45 pm
@Bella Dea,
If u can 't afford an "in home trainer" then probably
your best bet is to go to the library
(or Google it) information qua training to end the problems.

Possibly u can work something out,
maybe on a short term basis, for a trainer ? Negotiate ?
0 Replies
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 02:51 pm
Maybe try the traditional technique
for housebreaking, with newspaper covering the floor
that u remove incrementally each nite ?

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