46
   

Let pupils abandon spelling rules, says academic

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Sat 24 Apr, 2010 11:24 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
David is basically a control freak.
H's 'plan' to phoneticize English is simply a means of getting attention here among people who use fake names.
U suffer from scrambled thinking, Plain.

R your students able to follow your reasoning in class ?
Do thay complain ?

R u litigious, Plain ?

When I was involved in trial practice,
I found English teachers to be disproportionately litigious.

I mentioned that to one of my tenants, who is an English professor at Queens College.
He agrees, from his observation. He has found English teachers to be very petty. Do u agree with that, PLain ?





David
plainoldme
 
  2  
Sun 25 Apr, 2010 09:49 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Hey, from the cadence here, I find that you are angry.

Let's face it, would you post as much as you do if you weren't a man on a mission? Do you ever listen to anyone? People have complained about your silly spelling for years!
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Sun 25 Apr, 2010 10:01 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Hey, from the cadence here, I find that you are angry.

Let's face it, would you post as much as you do if you weren't a man on a mission?
Yes; what mission ?


plainoldme wrote:
Do you ever listen to anyone?
Yes.



plainoldme wrote:
People have complained about your silly spelling for years!
Yeah, thay started when Teddy Roosevelt was President; thay did it to HIM,
and I knew thay 'd do it to me. Neither of us gave a damn.

Examples of those complaints, ridiculing him, are displayed
in Teddy Roosevelt 's exhibit in the American Museum of Natural History, first floor.

R u litigious, Plain ?





David
plainoldme
 
  2  
Sun 25 Apr, 2010 12:32 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Although I have a master's degree in English, I do not know that any of my professors ever sued anyone. Why would I? Although I was friendly with several, I never had that level of intimacy with any of them. I do not know that any of my current colleagues are busy dragging people into court.

Several years ago, when I was previously posting on a2k and on abuzz before a2k, the right wing constantly accused the left of bringing suits against people, places and corporations. I insisted then and do now that the right sues as frequently, if not more so, than the left. In fact, I can think of several righties who are constantly in court, with complaints that often prove not to be valid.

Its a stupid concern. Who cares?

Now, to answer your question . . . which I was going to ignore, but I want your answers to two other questions on another thread . . . I have never brought suit against anyone.


Your request reminded me of several letters I have received over the years advising me that class action suits to which I could possibly be party, were being waged. Did I wish to participate?

I never did. I can't remember who waged the suits nor who the defendants were. What I remember is that one defendant was no one I had ever heard of. Neither the corporation nor the product was familiar.

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sun 25 Apr, 2010 02:22 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Now, to answer your question . . . which I was going to ignore, but
I want your answers to two other questions on another thread . . .
Feel free to ask. I openly fly my own colors.





David
plainoldme
 
  1  
Sun 25 Apr, 2010 08:01 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
The questions were asked on another thread where you condemned science and screamed that race is real and not a social construct.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sun 25 Apr, 2010 10:40 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
The questions were asked on another thread where you condemned science
and screamed that race is real and not a social construct.
If u tell me what u want me
to answer
, then I'll see what I can do to provide u with that information.

At this point, I don 't understand the question
(or more than 1 question, if such be the case).

Please be specific: WHAT do u wanna know ?





David
plainoldme
 
  1  
Mon 26 Apr, 2010 08:05 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I just looked for the thread but could not find it and, frankly, I have far and away too much to do today to waste the time.

In a thread, I stated that DNA research demonstrates that there is no such thing as race. You replied that I, like the communists and the nazis, use fake science to spread a lie.

I then gave you several links to the work of Dr. Spencer Wells.


I also asked you why it is that you hate science. You never know anything about science. You always answer any question about science with I never heard of that.

To me, every citizen today has an obligation to know and understand science.

The rub in that is that leftists are more likely (notice I said more likely and not absolutely) to be environmentalists than righties. In other words, to use less energy and to eliminate certain products of technology from their daily lives. They are also more likely to understand the impact that technology has on politics. The right, on the other hand, simply wastes energy and abuses technology (your statement that plastic bags feel good in your hand) without regard to the next person, animal or gas emission.

This thread is about the ridiculous idea of spelling reform. Now, there is a nation that successfully reformed its spelling after WWII. However, it was for a language that is of little import to few outside its boundaries.

Why worry about spelling reform when science and technology are so much more important?

I have exchanged communication with so many righties who think that teaching science in schools should not be made a requirement and that students with lower IQs should be excused from taking science classes.

So, David, find the thread.

Why do you ignore or hate science?

Why is it so important to you that there be different races when clearly, as I said in that thread, a person in Bejing is more closely related to a person in Sao Paolo than a poodle is to a pomeranian.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Mon 26 Apr, 2010 11:29 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
I just looked for the thread but could not find it and, frankly,
I have far and away too much to do today to waste the time.

In a thread, I stated that DNA research demonstrates that there is no such thing as race.
You replied that I, like the communists and the nazis, use fake science to spread a lie.

I then gave you several links to the work of Dr. Spencer Wells.

I also asked you why it is that you hate science.
Objection to the form of the question,
in that it assumes facts not in evidence, to wit: that I "hate" science.


plainoldme wrote:
You never know anything about science.
You always answer any question about science with I never heard of that.
I have never claimed to know everything about everything.



plainoldme wrote:
To me, every citizen today has an obligation to know and understand science.
Since this "science" is denying the obvious, I take it to be junk science,
probably motivated by ideology. This is similar to practices of the nazis and the commies; thay both did that.
In this case, since "science" is denying the obvious,
I surmise that it is (probably) defining its component terms
to arrive at the result that its chosen ideology desires,
with an effect of circular reasoning.



plainoldme wrote:
The rub in that is that leftists are more likely (notice I said more likely and not absolutely)
to be environmentalists than righties.
For what it is worth, altho environmental concerns
are not as extensive as yours are, I still consider myself
to be reasonably interested in the well-being of the environment.
That is MY vu of it.
We disagree.




plainoldme wrote:
In other words, to use less energy and to eliminate certain products of technology from their daily lives. They are also more likely to understand the impact that technology has on politics. The right, on the other hand, simply wastes energy and abuses technology (your statement that plastic bags feel good in your hand) without regard to the next person, animal or gas emission.
I will ratify and continue my support for plastic bags,
for the reason that I indicated. I 'm pretty sure that no animal
will thereby be harmed.





plainoldme wrote:
This thread is about the ridiculous idea of spelling reform.
Now, there is a nation that successfully reformed its spelling after WWII.
However, it was for a language that is of little import to few outside its boundaries.

Why worry about spelling reform when science and technology are so much more important?
To defeat and to tear down
the old spelling paradime insofar as it is inefficient and anti-logical.
Teaching children to spell the old way is child abuse.
The students shoud tar & feather the English teachers who spell the rong way.
Agreed ??



plainoldme wrote:
I have exchanged communication with so many righties who think that teaching science in schools
should not be made a requirement and that students with lower IQs should be excused from taking science classes.

So, David, find the thread.
I 'll deal with your questions,
as presented hereinabove. If u want me to have the thread,
then give me a link. I may well have more free time than u do,
but my lethargy is exceeded by my torpor.



plainoldme wrote:
Why do you ignore or hate science?
Your question is falsely predicated.
I deny your premises; e.g., about 4 years ago,
I attended a 3 day symposium sponsored by Mensa in Albany, NY qua
Cosmology and Membrane Theory in 11 dimensions,
attended by the world's foremost experts
and by audience members from all over the world.
Standing room 100% sold out. We loved it. (We had seats.)
I 'd go again for new information.
I LOVE and eagerly support the Space Program.
I 'd LOVE to see colonization of the Moon, Mars and any other
possible celestial body.

I love Vertebrate Paleontology.
I 've bawt numerous DVDs thereof.

Then there was another 3 day Mensa symposium qua
the psychology of humor; we enjoyed that. (No hatred.)


I support stem cell research and advances in cloning, including human cloning,
in addition to genetic research to improve the human body and mind thru mutation.

I support American research
to improve nuclear fission and nuclear fusion and solar power for both military & peaceful purposes.

I like Science.
I used to attend 3 day Star Trek Conventions in Manhattan,
(tho that was not really science).





plainoldme wrote:
Why is it so important to you that there be different races when clearly,
That is rather like alleging that mountains and oceans do not exist, by re-defining them.



plainoldme wrote:
as I said in that thread, a person in Bejing is more closely related to a person in Sao Paolo
than a poodle is to a pomeranian.
It does not work out that way.
It is what it IS, whether u call it "social construct" or call it Fred.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Mon 26 Apr, 2010 03:06 pm
ERRATUM:
plainoldme wrote:
The rub in that is that leftists are more likely (notice I said more likely and not absolutely)
to be environmentalists than righties.
For what it is worth, altho environmental concerns
are not as extensive as yours are, I still consider myself
to be reasonably interested in the well-being of the environment.

That is MY vu of it.
We disagree.


SHUD HAVE said:

plainoldmen wrote:
The rub in that is that leftists are more likely (notice I said more likely and not absolutely)
to be environmentalists than righties.
For what it is worth, altho MY environmental concerns
are not as extensive as yours are, I still consider myself
to be reasonably interested in the well-being of the environment.

That is MY vu of it.
We disagree.
0 Replies
 
JazzMinnie
 
  2  
Thu 14 Oct, 2010 03:30 pm
@Robert Gentel,
If you can't spell, are you able to say you can read? I do agree that memorizing the phonetics of irregular words is absurd, but the children of today, I am among them, should know the basics. Like knowing the rules of plural words. Mouse to mice, goose to geese. If I didn't know those rules when I read a book I probably would have thought a geese was something different than a goose.
So I ask again if you can't spell, or know the basics of phonetics, can you read? And reading is a skill many need to know in order to succeed in life.
0 Replies
 
JazzMinnie
 
  1  
Thu 14 Oct, 2010 03:32 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
You spelled philisophical incorrectly.
Region Philbis
 
  2  
Thu 14 Oct, 2010 03:57 pm
@JazzMinnie,

yes, but he did it on purpose, Minnie...

(you also spelled it wrong, btw)
plainoldme
 
  2  
Thu 14 Oct, 2010 08:53 pm
Over the years, there have been many theories about teaching and learning that were put into practice. What should be remembered is that one method might work for one segment of the population. Not every theory can be applied to everyone.

There was a movement to skip sentence diagramming and just to allow kids to write. As recently as 2005 or 2006, I heard a high school English teacher say that many, if not most, slower students are good writers. Really?!

The Dick and Jane readers followed the whole word method. While we were taught phonics, we had the Catholic school (Dick and Jane grew flowers for a Marian festival) version of Dick and Jane.

I wish kids had been taught to diagram sentences. Diagramming makes life sooooo easy!
Yeah, the above is off topic!
JTT
 
  -1  
Thu 14 Oct, 2010 09:13 pm
@plainoldme,
Quote:
I wish kids had been taught to diagram sentences. Diagramming makes life sooooo easy!


There is nothing about diagramming sentences that makes kids, or adults for that matter, any more competent in language or writing, POM.

If that were the case, you wouldn't have so many in a nation of plus 300 million who know so very little about language and how it works. As I've pointed out before, that includes a large number of university and college professors of English.

The people from a country raised on the stupidities of Strunk & White are not going to be helped by diagramming sentences.

Quote:

50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
By Geoffrey K. Pullum

...

It's sad. Several generations of college students learned their grammar from the uninformed bossiness of Strunk and White, and the result is a nation of educated people who know they feel vaguely anxious and insecure whenever they write "however" or "than me" or "was" or "which," but can't tell you why. The land of the free in the grip of The Elements of Style.

So I won't be spending the month of April toasting 50 years of the overopinionated and underinformed little book that put so many people in this unhappy state of grammatical angst. I've spent too much of my scholarly life studying English grammar in a serious way. English syntax is a deep and interesting subject. It is much too important to be reduced to a bunch of trivial don't-do-this prescriptions by a pair of idiosyncratic bumblers who can't even tell when they've broken their own misbegotten rules.

http://chronicle.com/article/50-Years-of-Stupid-Grammar/25497


OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Thu 14 Oct, 2010 11:03 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Over the years, there have been many theories about teaching and learning that were put into practice. What should be remembered is that one method might work for one segment of the population. Not every theory can be applied to everyone.

There was a movement to skip sentence diagramming and just to allow kids to write. As recently as 2005 or 2006, I heard a high school English teacher say that many, if not most, slower students are good writers. Really?!

The Dick and Jane readers followed the whole word method. While we were taught phonics, we had the Catholic school (Dick and Jane grew flowers for a Marian festival) version of Dick and Jane.

I wish kids had been taught to diagram sentences. Diagramming makes life sooooo easy!
Yeah, the above is off topic!
Yes; fonetic spelling also is good for everyone. Geoffrey Chaucer is unlikely to complain.





David
JazzMinnie
 
  1  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 03:05 pm
@Region Philbis,
Oh whoops it was early in the morning and I was rushing Philosophical. Jeez. Sad
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 06:20 am
I was just struck by the silliness of david's (and, by extension, this academic's) allegedly phonetic spelling campaign: how can he assert that "they" should be spelled "thay?"

After all, every representation of sound is arbitrary. Let's keep confusion to a minimum and continue spelling English words the way we have for a couple of centuries.
JazzMinnie
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 06:32 am
@plainoldme,
Exactly, if we change it now, many will be confused!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 06:33 am
I agree completely. Poor spelling can make the meaning of what someone has written obscure to completely incomprehensible.
 

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