FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

@spendius,

Perhaps you are right. Obama supporters are willing to embrace the mythical utopia that he promises and are unwilling to have anybody suggest that it might all be illusion. Right or wrong, McCain/Palin offer proposals dealing with the reality of the here and now and what can/should be done rather than some fuzzy grandiose religious miracle as Obama proposes. They offer no miracle, no magnificent illusion, no pie in the sky.

While, as is the case with all great satirists, one must look beneath the surface to grasp Chekhov's brilliance, he also wrote this:

Quote:

"All I wanted was to say honestly to people: 'Have a look at yourselves and see how bad and dreary your lives are!' The important thing is that people should realize that, for when they do, they will most certainly create another and better life for themselves. I will not live to see it, but I know that it will be quite different, quite unlike our present life. And so long as this different life does not exist, I shall go on saying to people again and again: 'Please, understand that your life is bad and dreary!'"

Is that not Obama's message in a nutshell?

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

The Annenberg Foundation, the parent group for the Annenberg Challenge for which both Barack Obama and William Ayers sat on the board of directors is conservative? Do you honestly think either of them would have anything to do with conservative concepts of any kind?

It was founded by philanthropist Walter Annenberg. Google is your friend.

Quote:

His supporters should be demanding that he produce that birth certificate to anybody's satisfaction who wants to know. If for some reason he cannot do that, we are 11 days from the National election, tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people have already voted, and a problem with his birth certificate could throw us into a constitutional crisis the likes of which we have never seen before.

He did produce it. Most people would be satisfied that factcheck.org vouches for it. I don't imagine that someone who wants to win an election will waste time answering lawsuits of which he is not even a party in order to produce evidence to a court that has not asked for it. You are taking a walk in rumor land, Fox. In one breath, you say you don't really believe there's anything to it yet you persist in your calls for him to go out of his way to quash the rumors. He has produced his birth certificate. There is no evidence that he is anything other than a US citizen. Perhaps you believe that GWB should also go out of his way to disprove one of Berg's other accusations (which has since been thrown out). http://www.911forthetruth.com/

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Is that not Obama's message in a nutshell?

No, it's not.

And that nonsense about Obama being the candidate we know the least about? Really? You know more about Sarah Palin than Obama? If you feel that is the case then you are either not paying attention or not interested in knowing.

1 Reply

@FreeDuck,

Your opinion is noted Duck. But yes, I know a whole lot more about Sarah Palin's life, philosophy, world view, outlook on just about everything in the brief time she has been on the national scene than what we know about Obama.

And that isn't Obama's message? When is the last time that Obama has identified anything in America as going well or is a good thing? What has he assured us he won't change because it is a good thing as it is?

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Your opinion is noted Duck. But yes, I know a whole lot more about Sarah Palin's life, philosophy, world view, outlook on just about everything in the brief time she has been on the national scene than what we know about Obama.

What a ridiculous paragraph. If you don't know about Obama's life, philosophy, and everything, you haven't been paying attention for the last year. Honestly. He's had as much scrutiny and been as forward with his beliefs and plans as any candidate - and he's been quite specific on many issues.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@FreeDuck,

Walter Annenberg has not been active in the organization for quite some time, however, and again there is no way in hell that Barack Obama or William Ayers would sit on the board of a conservative group of any kind. I look to the current leadership and the kinds of projects funded or sponsored as evidence of what any organization is all about, and you won't find any Republicans or other presumed conservatives there. He who lives and dies solely by Google is likely to often be wrong.

And show me anybody other than those who are on the record as being friendly and supportive of Barack Obama who have been offered access to the birth certificate to examine it. We've already established that WND agreed that it appeared authentic, but I have not seen anything to suggest they had it in their possession to examine it. I think there is little likelihood that it will be shown that Barack Obama is not eligible to be President of the United States, but why does he seem to show so little eagerness to provide the simple proof for that? He makes it look like he is hiding something. Three different people, including Berg, have filed suits to get a look at the birth certificate. Why was that necessary?

Given the Constitutional requirement for the President of the United States, the candidate's birth certificate should not be a matter of personal privacy in any context of any kind. If I was Obama, I would have ordered a thousand certified copies and mailed one out to any organization wanting a look at one. Somebody like him isn't in much danger of identify theft.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

If you don't know about Obama's life, philosophy, and everything, you haven't been paying attention for the last year. Honestly. He's had as much scrutiny and been as forward with his beliefs and plans as any candidate - and he's been quite specific on many issues.

Obama's life is difficult to interpret from his frequently modified descriptions, each of which was subsequently followed by his corrections as each--except the last one--was detected to have been false.

My favorite example of this sort of thing are his series of descriptions of his affiliation with Bill Ayres. First he said, he had no affiliation with Bill Ayres. His only connection with Ayres he claimed was that Ayres lived in the same neighborhood and his and Ayres kids were attendingd the same school. Then we learned that Ayres kids were over 20, while Obama's kids were not yet teen agers. Many changes in Obama's story followed until we learned he and Ayres worked together, and that currently they are working together.

Additionally, Obama's series of characterizations of both his and McCain's spending and tax plans have been shown to be false.

Yes, Obama is specific about each of his plans in each of his contradictory different characterizations. However, it's hard to feret out from his mix of characterizations what he actually intends to do if elected. I guess he thinks that ought to be left as an exercise for each voter to figure out.

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My goodness, the citizenship cases of both Obama and McCain have received equal treatments under the law. How outrageous!

Why aren't there suppositions and demands from the Three Stooges of conservative radio who purport to be protectors of the constitution for John McCain to prove that he is a citizen and legally qualified to be president?

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/10/berg_lawsuit_on_obama_birth_ce.html

Quote:

October 25, 2008
Berg lawsuit on Obama birth certificate reportedly dismissed
Thomas Lifson
Newsmax reports that U.S. District Judge R. Barclay Surrick has dismissed the complaint by Philip Berg challenging the eligibility of Barack Obama for the presidency. The document has not yet been posted to the Justia.com site, so we cannot directly quote it, but Newsmax writes:

Surrick issued a 34-page memorandum and opinion that said the claims were "ridiculous" and "patently false." He also said Berg's effort to pursue his claim regarding Obama's citizenship were "frivolous and not worthy of discussion."

http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79086

Quote:

Judge dismisses Obama birth certificate lawsuit
Rules voters don't have standing to 'police' constitutional requirements for president

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: October 25, 2008
3:14 pm Eastern

By Drew Zahn
© 2008 WorldNetDaily

Philip J. Berg

A lawsuit filed by Democratic attorney Philip Berg alleging that Sen. Barack Obama is ineligible to be president was dismissed by a federal judge yesterday on grounds that Berg lacks standing to bring the lawsuit.

In a 34-page memorandum that accompanied the court order, the Hon. R. Barclay Surrick concludes that ordinary citizens can't sue to ensure that a presidential candidate actually meets the constitutional requirements of the office.

Surrick defers to Congress, saying that the legislature could determine "that citizens, voters, or party members should police the Constitution's eligibility requirements for the Presidency," but that it would take new laws to grant individual citizens that ability.

"Until that time," Surrick says, "voters do not have standing to bring the sort of challenge that Plaintiff attempts to bring."

...

Surrick did not rule on the birth certificate controversy, though he did express skepticism over the notion that a foreign-born Obama would have escaped the primaries without being discovered.

"Plaintiff would have us derail the democratic process by invalidating a candidate for whom millions of people voted," Surrick states, "and who underwent excessive vetting during what was one of the most hotly contested presidential primary [sic] in living memory."

Instead, Surrick cites Aritcle III of the U.S. Constitution, limiting federal judicial power to handling cases and controversies in which plaintiffs have clear standing through specific, personal injury.

Berg, the judge ruled, simply didn't have a case for a particular injury and thus, had no standing to sue.

Surrick's ruling cites a case deemed similar, Hollander v. McCain, in which it was alleged during the primary season that since he was born in the Panama Canal Zone, John McCain is not a natural-born citizen either. The judge in the Hollander case also ruled a voter cannot sue to prevent an allegedly unconstitutional candidate.

Based in part on Hollander, Surrick concludes, "The alleged harm to voters stemming from a presidential candidate's failure to satisfy the eligibility requirements of the Natural Born Citizen Clause is not concrete or particularized enough to constitute an injury."

Surrick also quotes Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife, which held, "The Supreme Court has consistently held that a plaintiff raising only a generally available grievance about government " claiming only harm to his and every citizen's interest in proper application of the Constitution and laws, and seeking relief that no more directly and tangibly benefits him than it does the public at large " does not state an Article III case or controversy."

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@Butrflynet,

Cripes !!

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Your opinion is noted Duck. But yes, I know a whole lot more about Sarah Palin's life, philosophy, world view, outlook on just about everything in the brief time she has been on the national scene than what we know about Obama.

Yeah? Where is she on spending? What's her take on universal healthcare? What's her position on securing loose nukes? Public education? What does she think about the rights of states to secede from the union? What were her foreign policy ideas before she became a candidate?

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Walter Annenberg has not been active in the organization for quite some time,

That would be because he is dead.

Quote:

however, and again there is no way in hell that Barack Obama or William Ayers would sit on the board of a conservative group of any kind.

That is your opinion. Obama sat on the board of a group backed by the Annenberg Foundation, not the foundation itself. I'm curious as to why you think it is not a conservative foundation other than the reason that it seems to be interested in education. You don't think conservatives can be interested in improving education?

Quote:

I look to the current leadership and the kinds of projects funded or sponsored as evidence of what any organization is all about, and you won't find any Republicans or other presumed conservatives there. He who lives and dies solely by Google is likely to often be wrong.

Leonore Annenberg, president and chairman, endorsed McCain.

Quote:

And show me anybody other than those who are on the record as being friendly and supportive of Barack Obama who have been offered access to the birth certificate to examine it.

Factcheck.org is not on the record as being friendly or supportive of Barack Obama. Further, don't you think that he has had to present evidence of his citizenship to his party and to each state in order to get on the ballot? How about to become a senatore (and that goes for McCain too).

Quote:

I think there is little likelihood that it will be shown that Barack Obama is not eligible to be President of the United States, but why does he seem to show so little eagerness to provide the simple proof for that? He makes it look like he is hiding something. Three different people, including Berg, have filed suits to get a look at the birth certificate. Why was that necessary?

Do you know anything about these suits? Who are they plaintiffs and who are the defendants? Where were they filed? Are these serious inquiries? He has provided the proof (which he would also have had to provide to the state department in order to get his passport, btw). You are taking the position of the classic rumor spreader --" I don't believe it's true... but if not then why doesn't he ..." Most people, like you, don't take this seriously. So why should he?

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@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Your opinion is noted Duck. But yes, I know a whole lot more about Sarah Palin's life, philosophy, world view, outlook on just about everything in the brief time she has been on the national scene than what we know about Obama.

Yeah? Where is she on spending? What's her take on universal healthcare? What's her position on securing loose nukes? Public education? What does she think about the rights of states to secede from the union? What were her foreign policy ideas before she became a candidate?

She believes in a balanced budget, small efficient/effective government and thinks the government is too big and costs too much. She is opposed to government provided universal healthcare but agrees with John McCain's approach to leave health care in the private sector but promote polices to make it more affordable, assessible, and portable. She is not fond of teachers' unions that play politics with the education of school children, and favors schools hiring the best teachers and educating kids in solid basic subjects without including social engineering in the curriculum. I'm not sure how she feels about federal funding of education, but given her solid conservative credentials, I think she would havor a whole lot less federal meddling in public education. She believes people who think states should secede from the union for other than hostile reasons should have a voice along with those who oppose that. She doesn't think the First Amendment applies to only those with ideas she approves.

Since foreign policy was not in her (or any other mayor or governor's) job description, she will need some work there to get up to speed, but I imagine her foreign policy ideas are pretty common to the average conservative American citizen--free trade, be a good neighbor, maintain a strong defense so nobody messes with us, don't take any crap off anybody. She has demonstrated that she is proud of her country, she loves America, and what anybody else thinks is not as important as us doing what is right for us.

Further she has taken on graft and corruption in Alaska, is willing to take on members of her own party who she believes are behaving inappropriately, and she has demonstrated a whole lot of plain old fashioned common sense in her approach to governing. She believes it matters how you climb up the ladder and the company you keep in that process also matters. She is bright, an honor student, and a quick study, and she has certainly proved that she can take the worst that the most hateful, petty, and small minded can heap on her and come up smiling, focused, and undistracted.

The young lady impresses me a whole lot.

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When I hear: "McCain worker attacked.....wait,that turns out to be a hoax, let's consider these lawsuits about Obama's birth certificate......well a judge dismissed one as frivolous, in that case, look at what the Democrats are doing to Joe the Plumber!" ----something tells me McCain is not doing well in polls.

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@wandeljw,

One of the birth certificate suits was dismissed? I know one suit filed to require verification of voter registrations in Ohio was dismissed on the grounds that the Republicans didn't have standing to bring it. So we won't know how honest the vote was in Ohio will we?

But which of the lawsuits re the birth certificate has been dismissed?

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@Foxfyre,

A handfull of voters are not lawfully registered. That's small potatoes compared with the massive voting machine tampering.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

A handfull of voters are not lawfully registered. That's small potatoes compared with the massive voting machine tampering.

I hope you're right about the voter fraud, Edgar, but after seeing so many reports in so many states, I am not confident that the entire process has not been hopelessly corrupted. It will be critical if there are razor thin margins in any state. I am not convinced there has ever been more than a possible incident or two of voter machine tampering. But I am concerned with large numbers of bogus registrations, once the polls close, I can imagine a opportunistic unethical poll worker or two making very good use of those.

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

Yep, I was reading up before saying that... I'm seeing (here and elsewhere) a lot of attempts to lay groundwork for an Obama victory being somehow ill-gotten -- but it assumes an Obama victory.

I won't go that far -- still a significant amount of time left, who knows what may or may not happen -- but that, in and of itself, is encouraging. That McCain supporters seem so convinced that Obama will win.

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@Foxfyre,

Do you think United Nations election supervisors should be called in Foxy? Isn't voting fraud in member countries what they are for?

1 Reply

IS BARACK OBAMA A LIAR, A FOOL, OR BOTH A LIAR AND A FOOL?
He repeatedly alleges that the Bush Tax Cuts reduced the income taxes for the wealthy and not the middle class. That is false. For example, quoted below are the federal income tax rates for married tax payers filing jointly for the years 2000 (before the Bush tax cuts), and 2008 (after the Bush tax cuts).
Quote:
__________________________________________________________________
http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

2000
Married tax payers filing jointly,
marginal tax rate .. taxable income over ......... but not over
15% ........................... 000,000 ................... 043,050
28% ........................... 043,050 ................... 104,050
31% ........................... 104,050 ................... 158,550
36% ........................... 158,550 ................... 283,150
39.6% ......................... 283,150 .......................

2008
Married tax payers filing jointly,
marginal tax rate .. taxable income over ......... but not over
10% ........................... 000,000 ................... 016,050
15% ........................... 016,050 ................... 065,100
25% ........................... 065,100 ................... 131,450
28% ........................... 131,450 ................... 200,300
33% ........................... 200,300 ................... 357,700
35% ........................... 357,700 .......................
__________________________________________________________________

For example please notice:

(1) Those married couples filing jointly who earned $16,050 or less, had their tax rate reduced from 15% to 10%, a difference of 5%, while those who earned more than $357,700 had their tax rate reduced from 39.6% to 35%, a smaller difference of 4.6%.

(2) Those married couples filing jointly who earned between $43,050 and $65,100, had their tax rate reduced from 28% to 15%, a difference of 13%, while those who earned between $200,300 and $283,150 had their tax rate reduced from 36% to 33%, a difference of only 3%.

George Orwell's NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR constituted a prescient warning to humanity. Today in the excerpt below, “the Party” is Obama’s Party, and “Winston” is we who oppose Obama’s party.

Quote:
_____________________________________________________________________________________
http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79n/
Part III, Chapter II,
'Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else. Not in the individual mind, which can make mistakes, and in any case soon perishes: only in the mind of the Party, which is collective and immortal. Whatever the Party holds to be the truth, is truth. It is impossible to see reality except by looking through the eyes of the Party. That is the fact that you have got to relearn, Winston. It needs an act of self-destruction, an effort of the will. You must humble yourself before you can become sane.'
_____________________________________________________________________________________

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

One of the birth certificate suits was dismissed? I know one suit filed to require verification of voter registrations in Ohio was dismissed on the grounds that the Republicans didn't have standing to bring it. So we won't know how honest the vote was in Ohio will we?

But which of the lawsuits re the birth certificate has been dismissed?

Scroll up. Butterfly posted about it on this page.

0 Replies

FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

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