29
   

FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 02:16 pm
@McGentrix,
squinney "is" listening; no details, just generalities without any detailed support or evidence of how.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 02:19 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Funny, I hear him talk about exactly how he intends to change things with pretty much every speech.

I mean, do you want him to say, 'I'm going to talk to my secretaries, who are going to get the proposals printed, who are going to fax them to Congress...' ? What do you mean 'how?' He's going to do stuff the same way every prez. does: make proposals, gauge reactions, bend Congress to his will.

Did you mean something different?

Cycloptichorn


Nah, you hear what you think is how, but it's really something else. Some ambiguous idea or another. He is good at not answering the how issue. Trust me, he has yet to address how.


You must be kidding. Here's part of his speech today:

Quote:
But that's a long-term strategy for growth. Right now, we face an immediate economic emergency that requires urgent action. We can't wait to help workers and families and communities who are struggling right now - who don't know if their job or their retirement will be there tomorrow; who don't know if next week's paycheck will cover this month's bills. We need to pass an economic rescue plan for the middle-class and we need to do it now. Today I'm proposing a number of steps that we should take immediately to stabilize our financial system, provide relief to families and communities, and help struggling homeowners. It's a plan that begins with one word that's on everyone's mind, and it's spelled J-O-B-S.

We've already lost three-quarters of a million jobs this year, and some experts say that unemployment may rise to 8% by the end of next year. We can't wait until then to start creating new jobs. That's why I'm proposing to give our businesses a new American jobs tax credit for each new employee they hire here in the United States over the next two years.

To fuel the real engine of job creation in this country, I've also proposed eliminating all capital gains taxes on investments in small businesses and start-up companies, and I've proposed an additional tax incentive through next year to encourage new small business investment. It is time to protect the jobs we have and to create the jobs of tomorrow by unlocking the drive, and ingenuity, and innovation of the American people. And we should fast track the loan guarantees we passed for our auto industry and provide more as needed so that they can build the energy-efficient cars America needs to end our dependence on foreign oil.

We will also save one million jobs by creating a Jobs and Growth Fund that will provide money to states and local communities so that they can move forward with projects to rebuild and repair our roads, our bridges, and our schools. A lot of these projects and these jobs are at risk right now because of budget shortfalls, but this fund will make sure they continue.

The second part of my rescue plan is to provide immediate relief to families who are watching their paycheck shrink and their jobs and life savings disappear. I've already proposed a middle-class tax cut for 95% of workers and their families, but today I'm calling on Congress to pass a plan so that the IRS will mail out the first round of those tax cuts as soon as possible. We should also extend and expand unemployment benefits to those Americans who have lost their jobs and are having a harder time finding new ones in this weak economy. And we should stop making them pay taxes on those unemployment insurance benefits as well.

At a time when the ups and downs of the stock market have rarely been so unpredictable and dramatic, we also need to give families and retirees more flexibility and security when it comes to their retirement savings.

I welcome Senator McCain's proposal to waive the rules that currently force our seniors to withdraw from their 401(k)s even when the market is bad. I think that's a good idea, but I think we need to do even more. Since so many Americans will be struggling to pay the bills over the next year, I propose that we allow every family to withdraw up to 15% from their IRA or 401(k) - up to a maximum of $10,000 - without any fine or penalty throughout 2009. This will help families get through this crisis without being forced to make painful choices like selling their homes or not sending their kids to college.

The third part of my rescue plan is to provide relief for homeowners who are watching their home values decline while their property taxes go up. Earlier this year I pushed for legislation that would help homeowners stay in their homes by working to modify their mortgages. When Secretary Paulson proposed his original financial rescue plan it included nothing for homeowners. When Senator McCain was silent on the issue, I insisted that it include protections for homeowners. Now the Treasury must use the authority its been granted and move aggressively to help people avoid foreclosure and stay in their homes. We don't need a new law or a new $300 billion giveaway to banks like Senator McCain has proposed, we just need to act quickly and decisively.

I've already proposed a mortgage tax credit for struggling homeowners worth 10% of the interest you pay on your mortgage and we should move quickly to pass it. We should also change the unfair bankruptcy laws that allow judges to write down your mortgage if you own six or seven homes, but not if you have only one. And for all those cities and small towns that are facing a choice between cutting services like health care and education or raising property taxes, we will provide the funding to prevent those tax hikes from happening. We cannot allow homeowners and small towns to suffer because of the mess made by Wall Street and Washington.

For those Americans in danger of losing their homes, today I'm also proposing a three-month moratorium on foreclosures. If you are a bank or lender that is getting money from the rescue plan that passed Congress, and your customers are making a good-faith effort to make their mortgage payments and re-negotiate their mortgages, you will not be able to foreclose on their home for three months. We need to give people the breathing room they need to get back on their feet.

Finally, this crisis has taught us that we cannot have a sound economy with a dysfunctional financial system. We passed a financial rescue plan that has the promise to help stabilize the financial system, but only if we act quickly, effectively and aggressively. The Treasury Department must move quickly with their plan to put more money into struggling banks so they have enough to lend, and they should do it in a way that protects taxpayers instead of enriching CEOs. There was a report yesterday that some financial institutions participating in this rescue plan are still trying to avoid restraints on CEO pay. That's not just wrong, it's an outrage to every American whose tax dollars have been put at risk. No major investor would ever make an investment if they didn't think the corporation was being prudent and responsible, and we shouldn't expect taxpayers to think any differently. We should also be prepared to extend broader guarantees if it becomes necessary to stabilize our financial system.

I also believe that Treasury should not limit itself to purchasing mortgage-backed securities - it should help unfreeze markets for individual mortgages, student loans, car loans, and credit card loans.. And I think we need to do even more to make loans available in two very important areas of our economy: small businesses and communities.

On Friday, I proposed Small Business Rescue Plan that would create an emergency lending fund to lend money directly to small businesses that need cash for their payroll or to buy inventory. It's what we did after 9/11, and it allowed us to get low-cost loans out to tens of thousands of small businesses. We'll also make it easier for private lenders to make small business loans by expanding the Small Business Administration's loan guarantee program. By temporarily eliminating fees for borrowers and lenders, we can unlock the credit that small firms need to pay their workers and keep their doors open. And today, I'm also proposing that we maintain the ability of states and local communities that are struggling to maintain basic services without raising taxes to continue to get the credit they need.

Congress should pass this emergency rescue plan as soon as possible. If Washington can move quickly to pass a rescue plan for our financial system, there's no reason we can't move just as quickly to pass a rescue plan for our middle-class that will create jobs, provide relief, and help homeowners. And if Congress does not act in the coming months, it will be one of the first things I do as President of the United States. Because we can't wait any longer to start creating new jobs; to help struggling communities and homeowners, and to provide real and immediate relief to families who are worried not only about this month's bills, but their entire life savings. This plan will help ease those anxieties, and along with the other economic policies I've proposed, it will begin to create new jobs, grow family incomes, and put us back on the path to prosperity.

I won't pretend this will be easy or come without cost. We'll have to set priorities as never before, and stick to them. That means pursuing investments in areas such as energy, education and health care that bear directly on our economic future, while deferring other things we can afford to do without. It means scouring the federal budget, line-by-line, ending programs that we don't need and making the ones we do work more efficiently and cost less.

It also means promoting a new ethic of responsibility. Part of the reason this crisis occurred is that everyone was living beyond their means - from Wall Street to Washington to even some on Main Street. CEOs got greedy. Politicians spent money they didn't have. Lenders tricked people into buying home they couldn't afford and some folks knew they couldn't afford them and bought them anyway.

We've lived through an era of easy money, in which we were allowed and even encouraged to spend without limits; to borrow instead of save.

Now, I know that in an age of declining wages and skyrocketing costs, for many folks this was not a choice but a necessity. People have been forced to turn to credit cards and home equity loans to keep up, just like our government has borrowed from China and other creditors to help pay its bills.

But we now know how dangerous that can be. Once we get past the present emergency, which requires immediate new investments, we have to break that cycle of debt. Our long-term future requires that we do what's necessary to scale down our deficits, grow wages and encourage personal savings again.


That's like 10 different 'how' descriptions.

McCain's speech today didn't contain a single descriptor of 'how' he would fix anything. Just lots of assertions that he would. I don't think you are holding McCain to the same standard as Obama.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 02:20 pm
McG, maybe you want an answer to a specific question. What is something that he talks about doing that you think he has not adequately addressed in the "how" department?

I don't expect highly detailed plans at this stage. Both candidates have put forward proposals on things like taxes and health care that are available for analysis. That's about as much "how" as I think you can get from a candidate. Is there some solution he is proposing that you think he is not adequately addressing in that area?
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 02:21 pm
Transcript of Obama's speech this morning with expanded economic plan:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/us/politics/13obama-text.html?ref=politics
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 02:27 pm
@squinney,
squinney, Without looking at your link, this is what I think Obama has said thus far. 1) He will cut taxes for 95% of families, and increase taxes for those making $250,000 or more, 2) He will create jobs in the energy fields, 3) He will create jobs in the infrastructure repair and maintenance areas, and 4) He will provide benefits to companies that keeps their jobs at home rather than off-shoring them.

McCain? Well, he promises to create jobs (no details), and make the tax cuts for the wealthy and big companies permanent or cut them, while providing billions to those same companies - even when they are making record profits. McCain will also take over those mortgages in default to "re-sell" to the buyers. Sounds more like a liberal action than a conservative one, but who's looking? LOL
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 02:31 pm
@okie,
okie..

Meanwhile the sky fell on Oct 24th 2005 but no one wrote about it so you should believe it when I tell you now. If they did write about it, the democrats got the stories deleted.

Partisan viewing of history doesn't mean what they write now is accurate. I find it highly unlikely that the NYTimes or any other paper has deleted stories from their archives. Even if they did, it would be easy to find them in archived print editions and point out that they were deleted. Until you can provide evidence of stories disappearing, the lack of stories on Dodd opposing the legislation show there to be no evidence from the time. This leads to the conclusion that it is likely just partisan rewriting of history. The same can be said for either side that can't provide evidence from a time period they are claiming something happened.

Your "shocking video" is from the House where the legislation passed quite handily with the majority of democrats supporting it. The vote in the house proves that the dems didn't all oppose it. The only story I can find from the time show democrats in the Senate supporting the house version but not liking the changes made in the Senate version in committee. The GOP committee amended the House bill and didn't allow any Dem amendments to it. The bill then never made it out of the committee for a vote.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 03:09 pm
@squinney,
squinney wrote:

Then you haven't been listening.

He just spelled it all out clearly again this morning.

McCains speech on the other hand was the one short on how. Lots of "more jobs" and "I know how to..' but no explanation of how.


I agree. McCain's entire MO is to repeatedly lie to American citizens: "I know how to do it; I know how to _______ (fill in the blank)."

McCain: Trust me, I'm a fighter . . . a former POW who knows the meaning of suffering . . . I know how to do EVERYTHING!

But why should we trust him? McCain offers no explanation how he will do things. If he KNOWS how, why doesn't he tell us? If he KNOWS how to get Bin Laden, why doesn't he tell President Bush so we can get him? Are we to believe McCain's attack that Obama is the most liberal big government spender in Congress while McCain simultaneously proposes an additional 300 billion in government spending to buy people houses? McCain's health care plan is a pathetic joke that screws all but the young and healthy who presently don't need health care and who don't realize the merits of preventative care and early detection. (However, on the UP side for fiscal conservatives, if MORE people would just die YOUNGER and SOONER from preventable or treatable illnesses and diseases because of the lack of meaningful health care--then those people won't become a drain on the social security program.)
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 03:32 pm
@Debra Law,
Yes, McCain is the same guy who voted 95% with Bush during the last congress. I'm not sure what the correct name for that should be, but "mavarick" isn't one of them.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 12:15 am
"A MAN WITHOUT A PLAN"

The Rachel Maddow Show, MSNBC, aired a segment called "a man without a plan." It's entertaining:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032553
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 12:38 am
Request for Divine Intervention to elect McCain president and preserve the Lord's Reputation as the Biggest God

Quote:
Rev. Arnold Conrad, in delivering an invocation at a rally today for John McCain in Davenport, Iowa, apparently didn't get the word from the candidate about elevating the tone at such gatherings.

Conrad, who appeared before the crowd before McCain had arrived, offered a prayer that seemed to urge divine intervention to prevent Barack Obama from winning the presidential election -- and cast the outcome as a referendum on differing religions.

The Times' Maeve Reston was at the event, and she passed along the key passage from Conrad's words:

I would also pray Lord that your reputation is involved in all that happens between now and November, because there are millions of people around this world praying to their God -- whether it's Hindu, Buddha, Allah -- that his [McCain’s] opponent wins for a variety of reasons.

And Lord I pray that you would guard your own reputation, because they’re going to think that their god is bigger than you, if that happens. So I pray that you would step forward and honor your own name in all that happens between now and Election Day.

Oh Lord, we just commit this time to you, move among us, make your presence very well felt as we are gathered here today in Jesus's name I pray.






0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 07:56 am
This campaign's jibjab production. . . .funny stuff
http://www.peteyandpetunia.com/VoteHere/VoteHere.htm
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 10:20 am
@Debra Law,
And Obama's solution to the crisis is to raid 401Ks without penalty? What brilliance?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 10:21 am
@okie,
okie, Something wrong with your hearing? In what way does Obama's initiative to allow people to withdraw $10,000 from their 401k's without penalty a bad idea?
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 10:41 am
@cicerone imposter,
I'll be lucky to still have $10,000 in my 401k.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 10:56 am
@cicerone imposter,
A bad idea for who?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 12:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

okie, Something wrong with your hearing? In what way does Obama's initiative to allow people to withdraw $10,000 from their 401k's without penalty a bad idea?

Because it essentially breaks a good faith contract, and it sacrifices the future for immediate gratification, which is why we are in this mess in the first place. People will do this to go on vacation, go on a gambling trip, buy furniture they don't need, not all, but I bet alot of people, and it won't fix the problem, only put a bandaid on the symptom. What we need are jobs, which requires encouraging business activity, getting rid of a bad tax system, reforming education, cutting government spending, increasing our own energy supplies, quit aiding burdensome unions, reforming corporation laws, etc.

Withdrawing the money also will hurt the markets they are invested in.

The idea is stupid. We need to treat the problem, not the symptom, period.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 12:17 pm
@okie,
You don't give much credit to those who were responsible enough to save for their future, do you? What do you mean by "good faith contract?" Also, your presumption about "immediate gratification" shows you've been living in la-la land for the past several years. Wages did not keep up with inflation, and many are struggling to keep food on the table, and fuel their cars to go to work.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 12:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You don't give much credit to those who were responsible enough to save for their future, do you? What do you mean by "good faith contract?" Also, your presumption about "immediate gratification" shows you've been living in la-la land for the past several years.

Duh, ci, you don't get it, do you? Income is not the primary problem, spending is.

Spending a 401K on monthly expenses that continue the same after the 401k is gone does not fix the underlying problem, duh, ci. What happens after that? You need to listen to Dave Ramsey.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 12:57 pm
Quote:
1:25 p.m.

Chris Hackett addressed the increasingly feisty crowd as they await the arrival of Gov. Palin.

Each time the Republican candidate for the seat in the 10th Congressional District mentioned Barack Obama the crowd booed loudly.

One man screamed "kill him!"

Supporters have been noted shouting "kill him," "terrorist," "off with his head" and other equally incendiary terms about Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama. Others have directly suggested Mr. Obama is a Muslim, which he is not, or a traitor. Some comments even drew rebuke from Republican presidential nominee John McCain.

Other than the lone man, there were no other such outbursts.


McCain and Palin should really discourage people yelling out 'kill him!' while they are talking about Obama at their hat... er, election rallies.

Cycloptichorn
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 03:03 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
McCain and Palin should really discourage people yelling out 'kill him!' while they are talking about Obama at their hat... er, election rallies.

It's Obama who should discourage people at McCain and Palin assemblies"from yelling out 'kill him'" et cetera. Those yellers are actually Obama plants. While Obama is at it, he should discourage his Obama gang members from slandering McCain and Palin.
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 02/26/2025 at 09:19:25