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FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 11:15 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

No, considering that McCain was consistently behind up to the Convention, it appears that his convention bounce is holding up quite well.


Actually, Gallup was tied before the two conventions at 45% on August 22-24th gallup poll. So you are incorrect in regards to gallup.

In Ras, it was Obama +1 before the Dem convention. Now it's McCain +1. You are incorrect on that poll as well.

Neither Diego/Hotline nor Dkos/R2k polled before the convention.

C'mon, Fox. You can do better then this.

Cycloptichorn


Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 11:18 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I'm not going to argue with you Cyclop. I have been watching the numbers for months now. And ANYBODY who considers Daily Kos to be an objective or even reputable source of information for anything other than a good example of a slime mill isn't doing too well in the credibility department. You can do much better.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 11:22 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

I'm not going to argue with you Cyclop. I have been watching the numbers for months now. And ANYBODY who considers Daily Kos to be an objective or even reputable source of information for anything other than a good example of a slime mill isn't doing too well in the credibility department. You can do much better.


I knew you were going to bring that up.

Research 2000 is a reliable polling firm. Yes, DKos is paying them to run the poll. But that doesn't mean that they are hacking the results, and their internals and methodology are more open then any other poll being taken today.

Here are the internals -

http://www.dailykos.com/dailypoll/2008/09/16

Unless you can bring some substantive criticism, nobody will give a damn, Fox. DKos is reporting the poll, not running the poll. You're all wet on this one.

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  4  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 11:30 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Maybe you didn't read what I said? That you found the information on Daily Kos says volumes about where you are grubbing around to find dirt on McCain to spam the thread with. That you even go to that site to find stuff to post diminishes your credibility as being able to be objective about anything. You can do better.

And you must have missed the part where I use Rasmussen and RCP to determine trends? Sure I can go hunting random poll results to cherry pick to prove just about anything I want to prove. But I am more interested in the real deal thank you very much. And I am more interested in trends than in any single day's polling data that might be nothing more than what Rasmussen describes as 'statistical noise'.

Rich Lowry's essay this week pretty well sums up the situation McCain is facing this week though. The situation is that our mainstream media has sold its soul and may never be reliable as a source of objective information ever again:
McCain’s Scandal
The press has turned on McCain with a vengeance.
By Rich Lowry

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MTJhYWE1MDc0NjgwNWJjMTYwMjdkZDQwZDJjZDE3NzY=
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 11:35 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Maybe you didn't read what I said? That you found the information on Daily Kos says volumes about where you are grubbing around to find dirt on McCain to spam the thread with. That you even go to that site to find stuff to post diminishes your credibility as being able to be objective about anything. You can do better.

And you must have missed the part where I use Rasmussen and RCP to determine trends? Sure I can go hunting random poll results to cherry pick to prove just about anything I want to prove. But I am more interested in the real deal thank you very much. And I am more interested in trends than in any single day's polling data that might be nothing more than what Rasmussen describes as 'statistical noise'.

Rich Lowry's essay this week pretty well sums up the situation McCain is facing this week though. The situation is that our mainstream media has sold its soul and may never be reliable as a source of objective information ever again:
McCain’s Scandal
The press has turned on McCain with a vengeance.
By Rich Lowry

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MTJhYWE1MDc0NjgwNWJjMTYwMjdkZDQwZDJjZDE3NzY=


I didn't find the information on DKos. I found it on Pollster.com. Not that I have a problem with DKos or your opinion of it; it's a partisan, left-wing website. That doesn't make it the devil. When the WSJ, a partisan-right wing newspaper sponsors a poll, that doesn't make it inaccurate. When FOX sponsors a poll, it doesn't make it inaccurate. So enough with the bullcrap.

Your whining and puling about the media is as laughable as it is predictable. Yes, McCain is being called out for being a liar. Yes, the shine has come off Palin, who has problems. Yes, McCain has shot himself in the foot somewhat with stupid comments lately. None of that is the media's fault, and it's their JOB to report on these things.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 11:42 am
@Foxfyre,
It's all the fault of the media..

They MADE McCain lie..

Rolling Eyes
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 11:50 am
@parados,
Here, the media is making him lie again.

Quote:
On NBC’s Today Show, McCain told Matt Lauer:

Of course I don’t like excessive and unnecessary regu " uh, government regulation.

But on CBS’s Early Show, McCain told Harry Smith:

Do I believe in excess government regulation? Yes. But this patchwork quilt of regulating bodies was designed for the 1930s when they were invented.


That's within a single hour, he flip-flopped on the subject of regulation.

Don't take my word for it, tho -

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/16/mccain-flops-on-regulation/

They have a great video.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 12:01 pm
I wondered how long it would be before Obama's handlers pulled the plug on any kind of extemporaneous speaking? Apparently the lipstick on a pig analogy did it. Now the teleprompter goes with him everywhere he goes.

Quote:
(CNN) " It appears Barack Obama's teleprompter is hitting the campaign trail.

The Democratic presidential nominee has never tried to hide the fact he delivers speeches off the device, though normally he doesn't use one at standard campaign rallies and town hall events.

But the Illinois senator used a teleprompter at both his Colorado events Monday " making for a particularly peculiar scene in Pueblo, where the prompter was set up in the middle of what is normally a rodeo ring

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/15/obamas-teleprompter-hits-the-trail/

(I wonder if he'll be able to finigle a teleprompter for the debates?)
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 12:03 pm
Maybe, maybe. As long as McCain gets to have Lieberman stand behind him and correct him when he misspeaks, we'll call it even Laughing

Today, we bring you video of McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds getting humiliated on ALL THREE cable news networks -

http://gawker.com/5050339/mccain-spokesman-told-off-on-all-networks

What a hack that guy is.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 12:13 pm
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1xQeOPE9ePU/SM_zYrbv6LI/AAAAAAAACjU/Q-u1kw1Viy0/s400/mccainblackberry.jpg

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 12:14 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
If i air my views with American links about this
holy jew Lieberman
then A2k will delete .
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 12:23 pm
From The Salisbury Review-

Quote:
The Presidential Race
Written by Mark Coalter
Thankfully, after six long months the field in the forthcoming US presidential election has narrowed to two candidates. Months of primaries, caucuses, debates, mudslinging and negative campaigning have now produced two individuals who, according to the commentators, are set to make ‘history’. In the blue corner we have the first African- American presidential candidate to be selected by one of the two parties, a choice made more pertinent by the Democrats’ historic association with Southern segregation. Representing the Republicans is John McCain who, if elected, would, at seventy-two, be the oldest person to assume the presidency in a first term. On paper this may be an ‘historic’ election, a contest between youth and experience, a fight for the soul of the nation and destiny of the free world, however, as with many such facile pronouncements the substance of reality far outweighs the superficiality of mere symbolism.



Ramafuchs
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 12:32 pm
@spendius,
If i were
John McCain , I would have gracefully spend my few limited life peacefully and allow other conservative( highly qualified- but not the same qualification lik john) to torture, loot, butcher, rape the far off unknown non-christians.
Oh what a wonderful America.
God or Dog bless the American flag and make the American life nasty.
Rama
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 04:41 pm
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/16/mccain-commerce-committee/

Quote:
McCain doesn’t know what his own committee does.

With Wall Street’s financial institutions in turmoil, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) argued in a series of interviews today that his experience on the Senate Commerce Committee meant he knew “how to fix this economy.” “I understand the economy. I was chairman of the Commerce Committee that oversights every part of our economy,” McCain told CNBC’s Squawk Box. Watch it:

But, as the Washington Post points out, the Commerce Committee doesn’t oversee “every part of our economy,” let alone “the very areas now in crisis“:

In fact, it is the Senate Banking Committee that has oversight of “banks, banking and financial institutions; control of prices of commodities, rents and services; federal monetary policy, including the Federal Reserve System; financial aid to commerce and industry and money and credit, including currency and coinage.”

According to its Web site, the Commerce Committee oversees 13 areas, beginning with the Coast Guard, and continuing through “regulation of consumer products and services … except for credit, financial services, and housing” " the very areas now in crisis.

It’s not that surprising that McCain is confused about the Commerce Committee’s economic responsibilities, considering that he freely admits, “The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should.”


McCain also used the word 'oversighted' today. I don't think he's very good with English, either.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2008/09/16/cbs-s-smith-attacks-mccain-s-economic-experience-responsible-financial

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 04:53 pm
@Ramafuchs,
Yeah- I can't understand why a bloke like Honest John doesn't chill out on a beach somewhere with a glass of cold beer. What's the ******* point of being a millionaire if you can't do a simple thing like that?

It's like preferring to be put through a mangle to turning over in bed.

It's beyond me.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 04:59 pm
Another lie from McCain, this time about his health-care plan.

Quote:

The Caucus | A New York Times Blog
September 16, 2008, 11:23 am
Journal Disputes McCain’s Health Care Claims
By Kevin Sack

Senator John McCain’s top domestic policy adviser, former Congressional Budget Office director Douglas J. Holtz-Eakin, recently said in a conference call with reporters that Mr. McCain’s health care proposal would “put 25 to 30 million individuals out of the ranks of the uninsured, into the ranks of the insured.” In an article released Tuesday, a panel of prominent health economists concludes that Mr. Holtz-Eakin’s projection is off by, well, 25 to 30 million.

The article, published in the journal Health Affairs, argues that “initially there would be no real change in the number of people covered as a result of the McCain plan.” After a short-term reduction of 1 million in the number of people without coverage, the number of uninsured would increase by 5 million after five years, the authors predict. There are currently 45 million people without insurance, or 15 percent of the population, according to the Census Bureau.

Mr. McCain’s plan is designed to create greater equity between the group and individual insurance markets. He would end the exclusion of employer-provided health benefits from federal income taxes, an advantage not enjoyed by those who buy insurance on their own, and replace it with health care tax credits of $2,500 per individual and $5,000 per family.

That, the McCain campaign asserts, would drive more people into the individual market, fomenting competition, reducing premiums and discouraging consumers from buying more coverage than they need or can afford. The economists wrote that many “people are likely to have far less generous policies than those they have today.”

The analysis was written by Thomas Buchmueller of the University of Michigan, Sherry A. Glied of Columbia, Anne Royalty of Indiana University-Purdue University of Indianapolis, and Katherine Swartz of Harvard.

Eliminating the tax exclusion, they wrote, “would greatly reduce the number of people who obtain health insurance through their employers.” They put that figure at 20 million, and calculated that it would be offset at first by the 21 million who would be able to afford individual coverage using Mr. McCain’s tax credits.

Within a few years, however, the trend would reverse, the study asserts. That is because, according to Mr. Holtz-Eakin, the McCain health care tax credits would be indexed to “regular inflation,” presumably the Consumer Price Index, which is typically lower than annual increases in health care costs. Unless costs can be substantially reined in, the credits would therefore enable fewer people to afford coverage each year, leading to an eventual rise in the number of uninsured.

Mr. Holtz-Eakin did not respond to a request for comment.

The estimates in Health Affairs are comparable to those made in July by the Urban Institute and Brookings Institution, which projected that 1 million people would gain coverage after one year under Mr. McCain’s plan, that almost 5 million people would gain coverage after four years, and that the number of uninsured would then creep upward.

By comparison, Senator Barack Obama’s plan, which would provide heavy government subsidies for insurance for low-income workers, would reduce the number of uninsured by 18 million in 2009 and by 34 million in 2018, according to the Urban Institute/Brookings Institution report. That would still leave Mr. Obama well shy of his goal of achieving universal coverage.


http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/journal-disputes-mccains-health-care-claims/

Just one more lie to add to the pile.

Cycloptichorn
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 05:01 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
They always say that if you are into making piles you should pile them high.
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 07:40 pm
@Asherman,
Quote:
BTW just to set the record straight, I don't believe the American voters invariably make the right choice when electing their representatives. They almost certainly don't, but whatever their choice it is the one that we have to abide by until events and a new campaigning season can set things right.


Duely noted.
This brings up a very interesting point, at least to me. Western democracies seem to be especially enamored of this position of accepting the "rule of law". Hell, even the strongest partisans are only willing to go so far when things don't resolve to their political satisfaction. I remember the last general election when some flaming liberals claimed that if Bush was reelected they would move to Canada--a drastic action that is still law abiding. Alternatively, there are many parts of the world where the rule of law is used merely as a bludgeon to those out of power (Was it Madison that championed the rights of those in the minority? If not ,the argument that their rights and legal legitimacy is valued, at least as a check on those in power, certainly is Madisonian.) The Middle East seems a stranger to this concept and I might suggest not exactly fertile ground for the sprouting of democratic principles.

But on second thought maybe it really is widely spread and accepted capitalistic practices that bring a strong and influencial middle class to the picture that lets democracy take root. Fareed Zakaria in his book Future of Freedom posits that it is a strong, vibrant, and taxable middle class that initiates democracy (We might be seeing the very beginnings of this in China--the middle class thing not democracy). It is a government's addiction to tax revenue from those actually earning money that forces it to at least listen to if not actually bend to their wishes. So perhaps the power does not come from the people but merely their pocket books! This idea really comes into focus when examining a lot of middle east countries main source of wealth; their mineral wealth due only to their geography. Who controls that wealth and how is that distributed? The government does and the people are thereby dependant on the government as the main employer. Interesting, not exactly Enlightenment stuff though.

Quote:
Hey, the American People voted for Prohibition thinking that it would end the evils associated with alcohol. We've increasingly bought into the idea that the Federal government is responsible for everything, and that no one should be held responsible for their own lousy choices. The People often make crummy choices, but that is better than having the choices made by idealists operating from theories far removed from the daily lives and aspirations of the people.


Antonin Scalia has said "some very good people have some very bad ideas".
As far as the government bailing out people "for their own lousy choices" that sounds like moral hazard to me!

JM

0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 08:01 pm
@Ramafuchs,
Quote:
holy jew Lieberman


I see Joe Lieberman as an American of Jewish descent and America is lucky to have such a politician who examines issues and votes for those measures that protects all Americans despite party affiliations.

JM
okie
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 10:23 pm
@JamesMorrison,
I have just finished reading the last several pages of this thread, and about the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is, take a look at who Ramafuchs, the admitted and proud Marxist, seems to support, and let us support the opposite ticket, and our decision should be good and sound!
 

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