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FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

 
 
FreeDuck
 
  3  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 08:35 am
@okie,
That has to be the stupidest logic I have ever had the misfortune to lay eyes on.
McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 08:43 am
@FreeDuck,
You must not be reading a lot of rama's posts then.
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 08:51 am
@McGentrix,
No, I know about Rama.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 09:21 am
@FreeDuck,
Well, I do think that if you look at who Marxists, communists, and even terorist organizations may favor as president, that might give you a hint about a few things?

Lest you come to a stupid conclusion from that statement, the logic is that those groups of people see the Democrats as coming closer to their philosophy, and or they see the Democrats making it easier for them to achieve their particular goals in the future. The statement is not saying that Obama is a Marxist, communist, or terrorist, but they would see him as making their job easier to move forward on their incremental progress toward their ultimate view of what they want the world to look like.
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 09:22 am
@okie,
I know you do.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 09:50 am
Quote:
McCain campaign clamps down on questions in Alaska

By ANNE SUTTON, Associated Press Writer Wed Sep 17, 3:11 AM ET

JUNEAU, Alaska - GOP vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is effectively turning over questions about her record as Alaska's governor to John McCain's political campaign, part of an ambitious Republican strategy to limit any embarrassing disclosures and carefully shape her image for voters in the rest of the country.
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Republican efforts include dispatching a former top U.S. terrorism prosecutor from New York, Ed O'Callaghan, to assist Palin's personal lawyer working to derail or delay a pending ethics investigation in Alaska. The probe, known as "Troopergate," is examining whether the governor abused her power by trying to remove her former brother-in-law as a state trooper.


http://news.yahoo.com/s//ap/20080917/ap_on_go_pr_wh/palin_mccain_operatives

Unbelievable. The Gov isn't even allowed to speak for herself any longer. What a crock of ****.

Cycloptichorn
McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 09:54 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Is that another one that's clearly marked opinion?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 10:01 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Is that another one that's clearly marked opinion?


No, why would it be? I linked to a factual AP article, not an opinion piece.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 10:42 am
More lies from McCain.

Quote:
Despite Claims Today He Warned of this Crisis, McCain in 2007 Said He Didn't See This Crisis Coming

September 17, 2008 12:24 PM

"Two years ago, I warned that the oversight of Fannie and Freddie was terrible, that we were facing a crisis because of it, or certainly serious problems," Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., told CBS this morning. "The influence that Fannie and Freddie had in the inside the Beltway, old boy network, which led to this kind of corruption is unacceptable and I warned about it a couple of years ago.”

How does this claim of foresight square with this interview that McCain gave to the Keene (NH) Sentinel, discussing the subprime mortgage crisis, in December 2007?

Q: “Well the dimension of this problem may be surprising to a lot of people, but to many people, to many others there were feelings that there was something amiss, something was going too fast, something was a little too hot. Going back several years. Were you one of them? Or, I mean you’re a busy guy, you’re looking at a lot of things, maybe subprime mortgages wasn’t something you focused on every day. Were you surprised?

McCain: “Yeah. And I was surprised at the dot-com collapse and I was surprised at other times in our history. I don’t know if surprised is the word, but...

Q: “S&Ls?”

McCain: “I don’t -- what did you say?”

Q: “The S&Ls."

McCain: "Yeah, the S&Ls."

Q: "Is this bigger than that?

McCain: “I don’t know the dimensions of this. It’s hard to know what the dimensions are. As I say, I never thought I’d pick up the paper and see a city in Norway is somehow dramatically impacted by it. When I say ‘surprised’ I’m not surprised when in capitalist systems that there’s greed and excess. I think it was Teddy Roosevelt who said ‘unfettered capitalism leads to corruption’ or something like that, that people have disputed for years.

“But so, in this whole new derivative stuff, and SIBs and all of this kind of new ways of packaging mortgages together and all that is something that frankly I don’t know a lot about.

"But I do rely on a lot of smart people that I have that are both in my employ and acquaintances of mine. And most of them did not anticipate this. Most of them, I mean I can find some that did. But, a guy that’s on my staff named Doug Holtz-Eakin, who was once the head of the Office of Management and Budget, said that there was nervousness out there. There’s nervousness. There was nervousness that we had such a long period of prosperity without a downturn because of the history of our economy. But I don’t know of hardly anybody, with the exception of a handful, that said ‘wait a minute, this thing is getting completely out of hand and is overheating.'

"So, I’d like to tell you that I did anticipate it, but I have to give you straight talk, I did not.”

(Watch the whole thing HERE.)

-- jpt


http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/despite-claims.html

Not surprising. He's a shameless liar. If we had an actual press, he would be getting called on this on the front pages of papers, not just on the blogs of their investigative reporters.

Cycloptichorn
Debra Law
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 10:56 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Despite Claims Today He Warned of this Crisis, McCain in 2007 Said He Didn't See This Crisis Coming

(snip)


Thank you Cycloptichorn for sharing this article with the forum. I believe with each passing day that McCain's shameless lying is becoming more apparent to more and more people. Yesterday was a bad day for the McCain campaign.

Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 11:16 am
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:

Quote:
Despite Claims Today He Warned of this Crisis, McCain in 2007 Said He Didn't See This Crisis Coming

(snip)


Thank you Cycloptichorn for sharing this article with the forum. I believe with each passing day that McCain's shameless lying is becoming more apparent to more and more people. Yesterday was a bad day for the McCain campaign.


Yes, it was. Any day where the focus is on the economy is a bad day for the McCain campaign, for that simply isn't his strong suit. His advisers making foolish claims and going way off-message doesn't help either.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 11:20 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
That you found the information on Daily Kos says volumes about where you are grubbing around to find dirt on McCain to spam the thread with. That you even go to that site to find stuff to post diminishes your credibility as being able to be objective about anything. You can do better....

The situation is that our mainstream media has sold its soul and may never be reliable as a source of objective information ever again.


Where may we find credible and objective information? Foxfyre has declared that all of our sources of information outside of the mainstream media are dirt-mongering sites; and all of our mainstream media sources are subjective and unreliable because their souls have been sold. What are we to do?






Asherman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 11:28 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Let's take a moment to consider this report.

Who is Anne Sutton? We know that she sells "news" stories to the AP wire service. We don't know her sources unless she tells us, and we don't know how thorough a job she does in gathering materials for her story. Who is it that made the conclusions that she is reporting? We can make some inferences from the way she chooses to write the story.

Words, especially modifiers, carry a weight beyond the their simple definitions. Here is an example from Ms. Sutton's story, "part of an ambitious Republican strategy to limit any embarrassing disclosures and carefully shape her image for voters in the rest of the country" Here is a "more neutral" rendering, " this may be part of a Republican strategy to shape Gov. Palin's image with the voters." And here are the words and phrases that put the writer's spin on the sentence, ambitious, to limit any embarrassing disclosures and carefully, in the rest of the country. That spin might be accurate, but as nearly as we can tell that interpretation resides only with in writer's imagination.

Is this spin morally or legally something we should condemn? Nope, but we should be ever alert to the "hidden" biases of "news" stories. Strip them of their colorful words and phrases, and reduce them to as stark a rendition of actuality as possible. Try to determine what the writer's prejudices, motives are. Citing sources, doesn't necessarily lend credibility to an "authorities" opinion. Zealots on both the Right and the Left have their own pantheon of soothsayers whose biases are as notorious as their regard for accuracy. Less obvious are the internal biases and prejudices of reporters and editors ... until their spin appears damaging to your own position/candidate/party. Then, they are liars who are cynically abusing their sacred trust to report only verifiable facts in a completely objective manner. Drunk

This tendency is taken to extremes during a hotly contested election campaign where there is a wide gap between political philosophies. We all regard our own conclusion of what political philosophy is best as self-evident, and true. Alternative political philosophies must then be false and adhered to only by scoundrels or fools in capable of seeing what is so clear and persuasive to us personally. Passions soar, and careless hateful rhetoric tends to rule. We tend to blind ourselves to the spin that favors our cause/candidate/political philosophy, and at the same time paint the negative as willful deceit. The exchange becomes intensely personal, and we lose sight of the fact that political campaigns aren't about telling the truth, whatever that is, but providing a set of assertions that will persuade voters to support our cause/candidate, etc. The zealot and True Believer are blind to their own faults, and being "conspirators" themselves, project "conspiracy" on their opponents and the rest of the world.

This is the way things are. Most folks aren't political zealots, and they aren't particularly alive to their own set of prejudices. The electorate isn't one thing, or the other, but a conglomeration of interests that are all over the map. Some core values and voter preferences are well known. Voters tend to favor military heroes, and they tend to be suspicious of demographics different from their selves. Their personal concerns tend to reside in their pocketbooks, and the circumstances of their daily lives. American voters tend to view themselves as independent, benevolent, and just in a larger world that tends to be dominated by despotism where liberty, if it exists at all, is endangered by the forces of tyranny. Any politician that isn't four square for wholesome family values, patriotism and loyalty to the nation's security and well-being, and the common good is unlikely to move most voters. American values are traditional and passed down through generations, but we have increasingly come to depend upon television sound-bytes to get our information. People have had short attention spans throughout history, but in the highly integrated communications world, that span has shrunk from a few years to a few days. Extremes, inconsequentials and colorful images are sought at the expense of fundamentals, the dreariness of thoughtful consideration, and moderation.



Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 11:56 am
@Asherman,
I'd like to add just a small further note to my post above.

I chose this “news” report to comment on because it IS less obviously biased than some of the more pejorative things we are bombarded with during the campaign season. This sort of report instantly appeals to folks like Cyclops as “Truth” supporting their position. It just as instantly rankles and appears unfair to those of us in the opposition. The bottom line is that we all tend to be hypersensitive to stuff published/said during the heat of election campaigns. We should, I think, take all of it with a very large spoon of salt and doubt. It is probably impossible to be dispassionate and objective on such matters, but at least we can, most of us, be civil.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 11:59 am
@Asherman,
tl; dr. Keep your boring screeds to yourself, I am uninterested in tortured explanations of why you wish to deny our news media the ability to make judgments; the answer is always the same in the end: those judgments hurt Republicans, so they must be Biased.

I could care less that you discount the news reported by the AP. You don't have any information to counter anything she reported, you just choose not to believe it. There's nothing to say to that.

Heaven forbid that reporters and journalists look at the facts of a situation and use those facts to draw a conclusion. It's a careful part of the Republican media strategy, to insist that they do not have the ability or right to do this; it allows your side to get away with lies and obfuscations as if they are real defenses.

Cycloptichorn
Asherman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 12:06 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Thank you, Cyclops for underscoring my points. I rest my case.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 12:11 pm
@Asherman,
Asherman wrote:

Thank you, Cyclops for underscoring my points. I rest my case.


You never had a 'case' to begin with. The article reported facts and didn't have much spin on it at all. Did you even read it? I doubt it.

Ash, what would it take for you to believe that any of this stuff about McCain or Palin is true? Seriously. Could there be any facts presented which would get you to acknowledge a history of lies and deception on their part?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 12:13 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
That you found the information on Daily Kos says volumes about where you are grubbing around to find dirt on McCain to spam the thread with. That you even go to that site to find stuff to post diminishes your credibility as being able to be objective about anything. You can do better....

The situation is that our mainstream media has sold its soul and may never be reliable as a source of objective information ever again.


Where may we find credible and objective information? Foxfyre has declared that all of our sources of information outside of the mainstream media are dirt-mongering sites; and all of our mainstream media sources are subjective and unreliable because their souls have been sold. What are we to do?


Debra again presumes to misstate what I have declared. I have in no may declared that all of 'your' sources of information outside of the mainstream media are dirt-mongering sites. I have, however, declared some of the mainstream media to be dirt mongering sites. The bottom line, for me, is that dirt mongering sites are those that monger dirt dishonestly, maliciously, and with contempt for the truth. In my opinion, Daily Kos happens to be one of those.
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 12:14 pm
Tidbits of apparently unreliable information gleaned from “mainstream media” sites that have sold their souls:

49 days until election:

FINANCIAL MELTDOWN

How will McCain address this crisis? He wants to form a commission to study it.

Perhaps McCain can appoint his chief economic advisor, Phil Gramm, to head the commission. Perhaps after a year of study, the results will establish that our economy is “fundamentally strong,” that we are experiencing a “mental recession,” and that we are a “nation of whiners.”

Since the beginning of the year, McCain has repeated that our economy is “fundamentally strong,” 22 times. He now explains that he means our WORKERS are strong, and anyone who tells him different will have a fight on their hands.

“Country First“ WAIT, strike that. “COMPANY FIRST”

McCain and Palin proclaim, “No more golden parachutes for CEOs.” Carly Fiorina, after running Hewlett Packard into the ground, and firing 18,000 American workers and sending their jobs overseas, was granted a huge multi-million dollar golden parachute. Fiorina, one of McCain’s top advisors and spokesperson, declared that McCain was NOT qualified to run a major corporation--he is good enough to be CEO of our country--but please, AMERICA, don’t let him run any of our major corporations. “COMPANY FIRST.”
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 12:17 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Debra Law wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
That you found the information on Daily Kos says volumes about where you are grubbing around to find dirt on McCain to spam the thread with. That you even go to that site to find stuff to post diminishes your credibility as being able to be objective about anything. You can do better....

The situation is that our mainstream media has sold its soul and may never be reliable as a source of objective information ever again.


Where may we find credible and objective information? Foxfyre has declared that all of our sources of information outside of the mainstream media are dirt-mongering sites; and all of our mainstream media sources are subjective and unreliable because their souls have been sold. What are we to do?


Debra again presumes to misstate what I have declared. I have in no may declared that all of 'your' sources of information outside of the mainstream media are dirt-mongering sites. I have, however, declared some of the mainstream media to be dirt mongering sites. The bottom line, for me, is that dirt mongering sites are those that monger dirt dishonestly, maliciously, and with contempt for the truth. In my opinion, Daily Kos happens to be one of those.


Funny, you link to right-wing sites which do the exact same thing all the time.

Daily Kos doesn't report news. They link to others who do report news. If you have a problem with something that comes from their site, you likely have a problem with a third party.

Cycloptichorn
 

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