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FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

 
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 03:20 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Some of your polls are out of date, so your map means nothing, cyclops. Go ahead and soothe your hopes and dreams, but they are slowly going down the drain.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 03:29 pm
@okie,
What's going slowly down the drain is our economy. You still haven't noticed, I guess.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 03:48 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Rush characterized the Dems push for finding dirt in Alaska as a hoard of people hanging out in bars, offering anybody with dirt on Palin some rewards for the info. ha ha, probably offered as a fun description, but perhaps not too far off the mark! Problem is her favorability ratings there, it must be tough sledding for the "investigative reporters?" Instead, those reporters have to ignore the 80% or so of the people that are mad at Palin in Wasilla for leaving and being governor, and now Alaskans are mad at Palin for trying to leave the governors office, ha ha.


Today, in addition to all the female surrogates Obama has sent out to slime Palin, Hannity was talking about 30 attorneys and investigators who have been sent to Alaska to dig up whatever dirt they can find on Palin.

They're getting more and more desperate. Smile

http://scottthong.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/palinrocks12.jpg

http://scottthong.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/palinrocks26.jpg

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/tmdsu080902.jpg

One quip I heard today that I kind of like when one disgruntled Democrat calling in to our local station referred to McCain and Palin as "Geezer and Gidget"
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 03:52 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

What's going slowly down the drain is our economy.


Not really, but your gloomy outlook on life is duly noted and no help to anyone.
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 03:54 pm
This one is still my favorite and beautifully illustrates the excitement I'm seeing about McCain/Palin all over town. Who would have imagined?

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/sbr090508dAPR.jpg
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 03:56 pm
@H2O MAN,
I join the whole gloomy people who see the reality.
i detest to align myself who picturise the globe as heaven
for get about the plight of us citizens.
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 03:59 pm
@Foxfyre,
Who could have imagined?

The Democrats did it 24 years ago. Where have you guys been?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 04:00 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Some of your polls are out of date, so your map means nothing, cyclops. Go ahead and soothe your hopes and dreams, but they are slowly going down the drain.


Okie,

Did you not see this line in my post:

Quote:


Some of this polling is out of date.


I know that it is. But the 'safe' states for both candidates are not going to change. The recent polling has shown little difference between the pre- and post-convention results in almost every state polled to date. My conclusions still hold true: Colorado and Michigan are the keys to victory for Obama.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 04:03 pm
@Ramafuchs,
Ramafuchs wrote:


i detest to align myself who picturise the globe as heaven
for get about the plight of us citizens.


I also detest to align myself with liberals.
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 05:42 pm
@Foxfyre,
My overall reading of this “Palintology” is that both Pailn as AK Governor and the Alaskan congressional delegation did their jobs regarding the “bridge thing”-- looking out for Alaskan citizens. This thread has brought out the facts of that issue and I can’t see where either Alaska’s Senator’s, Congressional Reps, or Governor didn’t fulfill their expected duties. Palin did everything I would expect a good governor to do. So I would expect that if and when McCain/Palin are the chief executives of the U.S. they would turn those same energies towards taking care of all U.S. citizens and for the overall good of the country. Indeed, McCain left the impression in his RNC speech he would endeavor to be the Anti-Bush and veto all the spending bills he possibly could. The other side, arguing for an Obama chief executive, likes to point to this episode and say “See, see! She’s just like our politicians who are accused of earmarks and excessive pork!” But the argument that: “every one does it” has little going for it .If anything this episode highlights the value of the stated Republican goal of smaller government.

But let’s leave this mole hill and talk about the mountains of foreign policy problems: Islamic terrorism, DPRK, Iran, and Russia. These issues I consider existential threats to the U.S. Al Qaeda and Islamic terrorist are still out there and are supported by Iran and ,by proxy twice removed Russia (Russia sells arms to Iran and they have been reportedly found in both Iraq and Afghanistan). The agreement that the state department is trying to get thru regarding the DPRK is so watered down John Bolton is tearing his hair out trying, with article after article in the WSJ, to warn the American public that the Bush’s administration is trying to make a deal just so it can say it made a deal and fulfill some “legacy” requirements.

Iran is probably the biggest problem we have and has been caused by Europe’s and Russia’s refusal to stand with the U.S. and get tough with the Persians and by the Bush administration’s refusal, via Rumsfeldian myopathy, to countenance the power vacuum that might have been created by Saddam’s ouster. It would be a good thing if the Iranians could see the error of their ways before Israel feels compelled to solve the problem themselves. We should not let Israel put itself in this position. This is a tough problem that, like cheap meat, gets bigger the longer we chew on it.

Russia, flush with energy cash partially extorted from Europe and stolen from western oil companies (and even their own) is feeling its oats. Czar err… Prime Minister Putin senses an American weakness. The Georgia thing was planned by Russia and the decision to occupy fostered probably by NATO’s reluctance to fast track Georgia and the Ukraine membership into NATO. Additionally, the U.S. Missile deal with some Eastern European countries probably spiked Putin’s Pissed-Off meter also. I just read today Russia said it will send a naval squadron and planes to the Caribbean for joint exercises with, get this, Venezuela. Can you say “Cuban Missile Crisis “? Seems the U.S. is getting the big middle finger from both Hugo and Vlad the Impaler.

Given these worldly facts, who would you want in the White House? Well, Teddy Roosevelt, of course! But, he’s not available. But John McCain has warned and spoken out, not only on the “surge”, but on all the above. McCain has a record we can pick up, turn around in our metaphorical hands, and examine ad infinitum. This is in contrast to an initial ideological, some might say Freudian, reaction by Obama to talk with these people who mean us harm without initial preconditions. So we will have a Democratic foreign policy that is somewhat European and somewhat Robin Williams like: If they ignore our first warning we will warn them again, and if really necessary we will warn them again, again.

Don’t expect much cooperation from the Europeans for they have cold winters coming and are locked into energy agreements with the Russians. But other than ignorance of realpolitik and real world conditions, what is Obama’s excuse? In past posts I have been slammed for even suggesting that we should conduct foreign policy with realpolitik in mind, but, if the Old Soviet Union (Putin’s Russia) is going to play that game we must also.

JM
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 05:53 pm
@JamesMorrison,
What do you mean by 'realpolitik' James?
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 06:21 pm
Meanwhile, what do you guys think would be the response if Obama or Biden had made the Hockey Mom and Pittbull with lipstick joke and McCain or Palin had followed with this?

Quote:
Obama Says McCain Is Offering Fake Change: 'You Can Put Lipstick on a Pig, But It's Still a Pig'
September 09, 2008 6:10 PM

LEBANON, Va. -- "That's not change," Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., said of what Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., is offering.

"You know, you can put lipstick on a pig," Obama said, "but it's still a pig."

The crowd rose and applauded, some of them no doubt thinking he may have been alluding to Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's ad lib during her vice presidential nomination acceptance speech last week, "What's the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull? Lipstick."

"You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called 'change,'" Obama continued, "it's still gonna stink after eight years.

"We’’ve had enough of the same old thing! It’’s time to bring about real change to Washington. And that’’s the choice you’’ve got in this election."
Obama added that "it is not going to be easy ... John McCain has a compelling biography, you know Sarah Palin is an interesting story."

The crowd booed.

"No, she’’s new!" Obama said. "She hasn’’t been on the scene, you know, she’’s got five kids and my hat goes off to anybody who’’s looking after five. I’’ve got two and they tire Michelle and me out!"
-- Jake Tapper and Sunlen Miller

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-says-mc-1.html
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 06:48 pm
@Foxfyre,
Fox:
Realpolitik- politics based on practical and material factors rather than on theoretical or ethical objectives


Attribution, for the most part, goes to Germany's Otto Von Bismarck's foreign policy. But, perhaps I should refine the term to:

Neo-Realpolitik-- Politics based on practical and material factors first with the ultimate goal of influencing other national governments to be sympathetic if not down right willing to convert to our system of government--Free Markets, Free Press, Democracy, and a strong Human Rights emphasis (our theoretical or ethical objectives).

Bismark recognized that a nation of theorists and philosophers with a governmental "Good Idea" was of no use if the nation they populated ceased to exist. The Nation comes first. God and ideology can be tolerated and squeezed in, but the Nation and its people must be protected. A strong military is implied

Perhaps it has gotten a bad name because of its origins or at least practice in Germany. But if the nation appears weak it will suffer mischief from its neighbors. Saddam understood this and this is why he wouldn’t’ tell anybody, especially his neighbors, he had destroyed his WMD. Saddam’s real problem was that he was, actually, weak.

We must not only appear to be strong we must actually be strong. The emphasis is on practical and material factors upon we must rely on to inform our real world actions. If Russia talks like a bully and acts like a bully we should treat it as such since that is the language it understands and respects. There is a lot we can do to force world banks to drop Russia as their clients. This would send a powerful message, after all it was economics that brought down the Soviet Union, not Allied or NATO tanks or missiles. Alternatively, keeping our economy strong is part of my concept of Neo-Realpolitik, its not just making life hard for other nations.

Fox, Thank you very much for the opportunity to explain, you are the first one to ask before just condemning the term.

JM

JM
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 07:04 pm
@JamesMorrison,
Thank you. I understand a bit better now I think.

In your previous post you say
Quote:
But other than ignorance of realpolitik and real world conditions, what is Obama’s excuse? In past posts I have been slammed for even suggesting that we should conduct foreign policy with realpolitik in mind, but, if the Old Soviet Union (Putin’s Russia) is going to play that game we must also.


That is what many on the Left propose to do with Europe in general though; i.e. play the game the way THEY play it so far as universal social services and international relations go. They think we can win the respect of the Europeans by being more Europeans. A few think we can even win the hearts and minds of Islamic extremists by being nice to them.

And now you seem to suggest that we must play Russia's game to deal constructively with Russia.

I think we would agree that Obama is likely to play very nice with Europe and be their messiah as well as ours and would be agreeable to adopting many European methods in order to win even more of their favor. I think we would agree that he would not play the game as Russia plays it but would rather talk - talk - talk - and talk again.

So for me there is a disconnect here. Why should we conform the United States to be what anybody else thinks we should be?

Europe has much to commend it and lovely people there, but if I wanted to live as Europeans live, it would be a lot easier to just move to Europe. And I don't WANT to go through another cold war.

I'm pretty sure that McCain and Palin will most march to beat of their own drum. I'm pretty sure that Obama and Biden will not.



nimh
 
  3  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 07:12 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

On the state polling level, not much changed since the conventions.

Rasmussen poll on Montana today has McCain up by 11. SUSA poll from North-Carolina today has McCain up by 20 (!). Both McCain leads are larger than any recorded in the state before.

About North Carolina, even inveterate optimist Nate Silver says that, even if this poll is a bit of an outlier, it illustrates how Obama doesnt really have a chance of winning that state anymore. (Wasnt it you who a couple of months ago predicted Obama would?)

Less impressively but still noteworthy, Rasmussen and SUSA both have new polls out showing McCain leading by 2 in Virginia - the best he's done since May. Doesnt look out of reach for Obama, but it is a change.

Many other states have hardly been polled since the conventions. The pollster.com graphs, meanwhile, are deliberately very conservative in showing sudden changes in the race, and wont show the real impact of the Republican convention for a while.
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 07:16 pm
@nimh,
Yes, I posted some up to date general poll averages earlier today on this thread, Nimh noting that overall it is statistically a dead even race as we go into the last eight weeks. Those state numbers are interesting though. We've been having a devil of a time getting up to date state polling and I'm just not flush enough with cash to buy Rasmussen's premium service where a lot of that information is found.
okie
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 08:30 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre, what do you think, I always thought Obama or McCain would either win or lose very narrowly. Until a month or two ago, I thought Obama would win narrowly, but I have the distinct feeling that he was beginning to lose even before the DNC. After the DNC, I thought he was falling, the RNC sealed it, Palin is another problem for them. Unless Palin flubs very badly, and I think it would need to be bad, I think Obama is toast, honestly, what do you think? If Obama doesn't reverse, he could be swamped very badly in November in a landslide loss. His amateurishness and ineptness is coming to the fore. Some of the stuff he says is pretty bad, a total flop, and I think people are waking up to it.
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 08:37 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Foxfyre, what do you think, I always thought Obama or McCain would either win or lose very narrowly. Until a month or two ago, I thought Obama would win narrowly, but I have the distinct feeling that he was beginning to lose even before the DNC. After the DNC, I thought he was falling, the RNC sealed it, Palin is another problem for them. Unless Palin flubs very badly, and I think it would need to be bad, I think Obama is toast, honestly, what do you think? If Obama doesn't reverse, he could be swamped very badly in November in a landslide loss. His amateurishness and ineptness is coming to the fore. Some of the stuff he says is pretty bad, a total flop, and I think people are waking up to it.


Yes. He has been so non-stop in his attacks on McCain and Palin the last seeral days that he and/or his surrogates are sounding shrill, frantic, and more than a little desperate. How long will it take his disciples to get tired of the incessant whining?

Two weeks ago had Obama said this: "You know, you can put lipstick on a pig," Obama said, "but it's still a pig." I would have easily accepted it as a simple figure of speech. This week, I am not at all sure he wasn't alluding to Palin in a snotty way and watching the You Tube clip of the audience reaction, I KNOW they took it that way. Every one of them would have gone ballistic if McCain or Palin said anything even possibly as offensive.

[you tube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPd4yk0x-eg[/you tube]
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 08:49 pm
@Foxfyre,

Okay I botched the YouTube clip so here it is again (I hope)
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 08:53 pm
@Foxfyre,
You're not sure if he was alluding to Palin but you know it was offensive?

Your statements just don't make sense Fox. This is like your attempt to make a journalist's words into an Obama attack. There is no there there so you are offended by what you think should be there.
0 Replies
 
 

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