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FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  3  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 11:52 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
According to news coverage at the time, the librarian said she would definitely not be all right with it. A few months later, the librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, got a letter from Palin telling her she was going to be fired. The censorship issue was not mentioned as a reason for the firing. The letter just said the new mayor felt Emmons didn't fully support her and had to go.
Emmons had been city librarian for seven years and was well liked. After a wave of public support for her, Palin relented and let Emmons keep her job
.
http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515512.html

From Walter’s source
Quote:
But the situation calmed, and rather than being recalled, Palin was re-elected. She later acknowledged, "I grew tremendously in my early months as mayor."


I’m sure Palin screwed up plenty in her first months as Chief Executive. I certainly did when I, totally inexperienced, was hired as executive director of a large social service agency. I made a lot of stupid mistakes and I made enemies. And I got stuff right and I learned how to avoid a lot of mistakes and I grew in the job and made more friends than I made enemies. At least the board kept renewing my contract and giving me raises. And I’m proud of my accomplishments during my tenure as I am sure I Sarah is proud of hers. (I in no way had the magnitude or degree of responsibility in my job that Sarah had in hers as Mayor of Wasilla.)

Remember how Bill Clinton so disgusted the people of Arkansas that they threw him out as governor after one term? Stupid mistake after stupid mistake. He regrouped, reorganized, cleaned up his act and attitude, and ran again and had a long tenure as a quite successful governor.

We all do stupid stuff and have to regroup now and then.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 11:55 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Quote:
According to news coverage at the time, the librarian said she would definitely not be all right with it. A few months later, the librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, got a letter from Palin telling her she was going to be fired. The censorship issue was not mentioned as a reason for the firing. The letter just said the new mayor felt Emmons didn't fully support her and had to go.
Emmons had been city librarian for seven years and was well liked. After a wave of public support for her, Palin relented and let Emmons keep her job
.
http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515512.html

From Walter’s source
Quote:
But the situation calmed, and rather than being recalled, Palin was re-elected. She later acknowledged, "I grew tremendously in my early months as mayor."


I’m sure Palin screwed up plenty in her first months as Chief Executive. I certainly did when I, totally inexperienced, was hired as executive director of a large social service agency. I made a lot of stupid mistakes and I made enemies. And I got stuff right and I learned how to avoid a lot of mistakes and I grew in the job and made more friends than I made enemies. At least the board kept renewing my contract and giving me raises. And I’m proud of my accomplishments during my tenure as I am sure I Sarah is proud of hers. (I in no way had the magnitude or degree of responsibility in my job that Sarah had in hers as Mayor of Wasilla.)



Good, at least you can admit that I wasn't 'sliming' her.

I agree, Palin should be proud. She personally used a lobbyist to secure 27 million dollars in pork for her town. That's a record of accomplishment that she should highlight at every available opportunity, and it taught her the necessary lessons to do the same on the State Governor level. Bravo!

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 11:58 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cyclop, when you ONLY pick out things that put her in a bad light and misrepresent those, it's sliming. Sorry, but it really is. It is sliming when our side does it and it is sliming when your side does it.

I suggest we all spend a little time and include any extenuating circumstances that might give a more accurate picture when we criticize our opponents.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 12:01 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Cyclop, when you ONLY pick out things that put her in a bad light and misrepresent those, it's sliming. Sorry, but it really is.



Sorry Fox, you can't just make words mean whatever you want. Pointing out facts about someone isn't 'sliming' them. It's highlighting certain aspects of their record in a way designed to leave a certain impression, yes; but 'sliming' is an inaccurate term. To you, I guess it means we can't criticize Palin's actual actions while in office, unless we 'slime' her. Right?

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 12:03 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Does that we can't criticize Obama's actual inaction's?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 12:09 pm
Regarding the book incident... You lefties are just wrong about this.

Quote:
Not a Book Burner
One false rumor accuses then-Mayor Palin of threatening to fire Wasilla's librarian for refusing to ban books from the town library. Some versions of the rumor come complete with a list of the books that Palin allegedly attempted to ban. The story is false on several fronts: Palin never asked that books be banned; the librarian continued to serve in that position; no books were actually banned; and many of the books on the list that Palin supposedly wanted to censor weren't even in print at the time, proving that the list is a fabrication.

It's true that Palin did raise the issue with Mary Ellen Emmons, Wasilla's librarian, on at least two occasions. Emmons flatly stated her opposition both times. But, as the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman (Wasilla's local paper) reported at the time, Palin asked general questions about what Emmons would say if Palin requested that a book be banned. According to Emmons, Palin "was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the library." Emmons reported that Palin pressed the issue, asking whether Emmons' position would change if residents were picketing the library. Wasilla resident Anne Kilkenny, who was at the meeting, corroborates Emmons' story, telling the Chicago Tribune that "Sarah said to Mary Ellen, 'What would your response be if I asked you to remove some books from the collection?' "

Palin characterized the exchange differently, initially volunteering the episode as an example of discussions with city employees about following her administration's agenda. Palin described her questions to Emmons as "rhetorical," noting that her questions "were asked in the context of professionalism regarding the library policy that is in place in our city." Actually, true rhetorical questions have implied answers (e.g., "Who do you think you are?"), so Palin probably meant to describe her questions as hypothetical or theoretical. We can't read minds, so it is impossible for us to know whether or not Palin may actually have wanted to ban books from the library or whether she simply wanted to know how her new employees would respond to an instruction from their boss. It is worth noting that, in an update, the Frontiersman points out that no book was ever banned from the library's shelves.

Moreover, although Palin fired Emmons as part of a "loyalty" purge, she rehired Emmons the next day, and Emmons remained at her job for two-and-a-half more years. Actually, Palin initially requested Emmons' resignation in October 1996, four days before the public discussion of censorship. That was at the same time she requested that all four of Wasilla's department heads resign. Palin described the requests as a loyalty test and allowed all four department heads to retain their positions. But on Jan. 30, 1997, three months after the censorship discussion, Palin informed Emmons and Wasilla's police chief, Irv Stambaugh, that they would be fired. According to the Chicago Tribune, Palin did not list censorship as a reason for Emmons' firing. Palin rehired Emmons the following day. Emmons continued to serve as librarian until August 1999, when the Chicago Tribune reports that she resigned.

So what about that list of books targeted for banning, which according to one widely e-mailed version was taken "from the official minutes of the Wasilla Library Board"? If it was, the library board should take up fortune telling. The list includes the first four Harry Potter books, none of which had been published at the time of the Palin-Emmons conversations. The first wasn't published until 1998. In fact, the list is a simple cut-and-paste job, snatched (complete with typos and the occasional incorrect title) from the Florida Institute of Technology library Web page, which presents the list as "Books banned at one time or another in the United States."



I know, I know... Factcheck.org must have it wrong. I mean after all, they are disagreeing with the liberal agenda!
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 12:12 pm
@McGentrix,
McG, which part of what you posted shows that Palin did not fire the lady, only to rehire her?

I don't care what PALIN says about why she did it - I don't understand how you can think that asking people to describe the motivations behind their own actions gives any sort of real answer as to why they did things. Everyone is going to put themselves in the best possible light every single time...

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 12:15 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

McG, which part of what you posted shows that Palin did not fire the lady, only to rehire her?

I don't care what PALIN says about why she did it - I don't understand how you can think that asking people to describe the motivations behind their own actions gives any sort of real answer as to why they did things. Everyone is going to put themselves in the best possible light every single time...

Cycloptichorn


You posted the very quote that says Palin did not fire the lady only to rehire her Cyclop. Don't you read what you write? Palin did not fire her. She intended to, but she relented. McG's post says that Emmons was fired one day and rehired the next. I believe McG's source is incorrect because I don't believe Emmons was ever actually fired. She was threatened with firing yes, but it never actually happened.

I thought the part about Palin asking for her resignation BEFORE the book banning discussion came up was interesting though. First time I have seen that.
okie
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 12:17 pm
@Foxfyre,
Rush characterized the Dems push for finding dirt in Alaska as a hoard of people hanging out in bars, offering anybody with dirt on Palin some rewards for the info. ha ha, probably offered as a fun description, but perhaps not too far off the mark! Problem is her favorability ratings there, it must be tough sledding for the "investigative reporters?" Instead, those reporters have to ignore the 80% or so of the people that are mad at Palin in Wasilla for leaving and being governor, and now Alaskans are mad at Palin for trying to leave the governors office, ha ha.

Arkansas was probably so glad and overjoyed when Clinton left Arkansas, they were probably tempted to hold parades to mark the occasion.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 12:18 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

McG, which part of what you posted shows that Palin did not fire the lady, only to rehire her?

I don't care what PALIN says about why she did it - I don't understand how you can think that asking people to describe the motivations behind their own actions gives any sort of real answer as to why they did things. Everyone is going to put themselves in the best possible light every single time...

Cycloptichorn


Bull ****. She did fire her. I don't know where you are getting your information from.

Cycloptichorn
You posted the very quote that says Palin did not fire the lady only to rehire her Cyclop. Don't you read what you write? Palin did not fire her. She intended to, but she relented. McG's post says that Emmons was fired one day and rehired the next. I believe McG's source is incorrect because I don't believe Emmons was ever actually fired. She was threatened with firing yes, but it never actually happened.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 12:23 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Why don't you go to Alaska, cyclops, since you are so interested in this, and tell the Alaskans how to run their business?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  3  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 12:24 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

McG, which part of what you posted shows that Palin did not fire the lady, only to rehire her?

I don't care what PALIN says about why she did it - I don't understand how you can think that asking people to describe the motivations behind their own actions gives any sort of real answer as to why they did things. Everyone is going to put themselves in the best possible light every single time...

Cycloptichorn


Let's see, you said
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Oh nah, she just asked the librarian how she felt about banning books, and when she didn't get the answer she like, she fired her; only to hear a giant outcry from her constituents, upon which she re-hired her.

Cycloptichorn


You obviously care about WHY she did it and you are wrong in the reasons. You will obviously put people that oppose you politically or challenge your beliefs in the darkest shadow every single time and you are wrong to do so.

Factcheck shows that Palin did indeed fire the librarian. At the same time she fired the Police Chief. She then rehired her the next day and she worked for several years after only to resign on her own.

It's ok to admit you are wrong on this. We all know anyways.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 12:37 pm
@McGentrix,
I like the way how it is seen by a Jewish source:I
Quote:
In the spirit of Christian forgiveness, perhaps Sarah would now like to nominate Mary Ellen Baker, Wasailla’s librarian (yes, the one she tried to fire) for the I Love My Librarian Award.

Israel e News
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  4  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 12:47 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
Factcheck shows that Palin did indeed fire the librarian. At the same time she fired the Police Chief. She then rehired her the next day and she worked for several years after only to resign on her own.


And none of this strikes anyone on the McCain/Palin side as abuse of power? Heavy handedness? Your with me or your against me?

Palin fired the librarian and police chief to show she could, as a warning for them to get in line and support her. She sent the message that "your job is on the line if you don't d what I want."

Gee, that sounds awfully familiar. Certainly doesn't indicate any willingness to reach across the aisle or unite.
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 12:52 pm
@squinney,
Yeah, the factcheck said it was part of a "loyalty purge". I'm not sure if that's better than censorship.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 12:57 pm
@squinney,
There's no doubt about it that Sarah did make a lot of mistakes in her early months on the job. She readily admits it. She learned. She grew. She got better. She left as a popular mayor as is testified by previous posts. Perhaps she should get some credit that she actually did learn some things on the job because she has some actual experience?

And maybe it is unfair to brand a perfectly acceptable policy of requesting resignations from existing appointees as "abuse of power"? In many organizations I have worked for, that has been a standard procedure with each new incoming executive. Bill Clinton fired everybody in the travel office, all US attorneys, and many others when he came into office. Was that an abuse of power?

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/Shelton_C20070904.jpg
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 01:00 pm
@squinney,
Of course it doesn't indicate anything of the sort. Is that really what you want to judge her abilities on though? That she fired 2 department heads? Ignore everything else she did?

That seems really narrow minded and silly.

But, I doubt anything Palin could, would or did do would really matter though. She is againt the Obama ticket and she might as well be the devil incarnate.
squinney
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 01:36 pm
@McGentrix,
Typical for you to assume I'm judging her abilities only on those two things and proceed to call me narrow minded and silly based on your wrong assumption.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 01:47 pm
So, with 2 months to go, where are we?

It's been long enough after the conventions that I'm comfortable saying that McCain's bounce has reached it's height, at least, his convention bounce has.

On the state polling level, not much changed since the conventions. The swing states are still swinging back and forth. Michigan has tightened up, but Obama maintains a lead there.

I use http://www.pollster.com/ as my primary source of info, as they are relatively up-to-date and pretty non-partisan.

Counting the 'strong' states (which aren't going anywhere for either candidate) and the 'lean' states (which MOST LIKELY will not go anywhere for either candidate), the current electoral vote count stands at:

Obama 243
McCain 179
Toss-up 116

It's obvious that Obama is sitting in a good position right now. Here are the toss-up states, with their pollster.com graphs:

New Hampshire:

http://www.pollster.com/08NHPresGEMvO600.png

Michigan:

http://www.pollster.com/08MIPresGEMvO600.png

Virginia:

http://www.pollster.com/08VAPresGEMvO600.png

North Carolina:

http://www.pollster.com/08NCPresGEMvO600.png

Florida:

http://www.pollster.com/08FLPresGEMvO600.png

Ohio:

http://www.pollster.com/08OHPresGEMvO600.png

North Dakota:

http://www.pollster.com/08NDPresGEMvO600.png

Montana:

http://www.pollster.com/08MTPresGEMvO600.png

Colorado:

http://www.pollster.com/08COPresGEMvO600.png

Finally, Nevada:

http://www.pollster.com/08NVPresGEMvO600.png

Not a bad showing from Obama in any of these swing states.

My recommendation for Obama would be to focus on MI and CO. If he wins those two, he wins the election. He only needs 26 out of the 116 toss-up EVs to win the election, and it seems that he has multiple paths to achieve that.

Some of this polling is out of date. I doubt Montana is within reach for Obama, though the fact that Ron Paul is on the ticket there now will help him considerably. I would bet my life that Obama will win Michigan, he's been ahead there the whole time and they're running plenty of ads there which are some of his best ads to date.

As for Colorado, it's hard to say. I think Obama can do it.

Unless we see a major shift in state polling by the end of next week, this election is Obama's to lose. At this point in 2004:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2004/Pres/Pngs/Sep09.png

Obama is doing far better then Kerry, in terms of electoral votes, at this point in 2004. McCain has a huge hill to climb. In order to hit 270, he must win nearly every one of the 'swing states.' It's hard to overstate how overwhelmingly McCain will have to win.

Let's say that McCain wins all his current projected states, plus -

FL - 27
NC- 15
VA - 13
NH - 4
OH - 20
ND - 3
MT - 3
NV - 5

His electoral vote count would be at - 269, to tie with Obama. At that point the House of Representatives would decide and would declare Obama the winner.

Forget OH and FL; the true battlefield is in CO and MI. McCain cannot afford to lose either of those two states and still expect to win the election.

Cycloptichorn
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 01:57 pm
@squinney,
Well, you brought it up, but don't let that stop you from getting indignant.
0 Replies
 
 

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