Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

@edgarblythe,

It wouldn't make any difference, edgar.
Burning anything on children's arms would lead to very serious consequences. I'm at all surprised that his case has been dropped.

3 Replies

@farmerman,

Quote:

I have no idea who finaced the case, but I imagine that several Chriastian organizations and the Discovery Institute, The Cornerstone Projects, as well as some unknown 501 c-(3) organization may have been behind it.

Here we go. What is intended there is that the careless reader, and there are a lot of those on A2K, forgets, possibly immediately, the phrase "I imagine" and takes from the sentence that the case was financed by several Christian organizations, the Discovery Institute, the Cornerstone Projects and some secret societies.

And this from a man who was caught just the other day lecturing someone on the evils of non-sequiturs.

I agree fm that Ionus goes too far but he is a declared proponent of teaching evolution in schools and excluding religious influences so it doesn't surprise me one bit. In case you think what he says affects my opinion of you I can assure you that it does not. And you have returned like for like on many occasions so we civilised Christians can only conclude that such things are characteristic of the foot-soldiers (acting unpaid) of the PLOT and I can't for the life of me see how any ladies might benefit from associating themselves with those aspects of anti-ID and which have been a fairly constant feature of these threads from long before Ionus appeared. I refer especially to the anti-ID bullying off A2K of Frank Apisa in which you participated in and which was at least as disgraceful as anything Ionus has said.

Which shows that you can dish it out but can't take it and Ionus's low opinion of you is amply justified on that one ground alone.

0 Replies

@msolga,

If it raised blisters or left scars, I might be persuaded.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

(As I said before, speaking about Oz laws & schools, edgar ..) no touching. Out of bounds.

But anyway ...

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@msolga,

Quote:

Burning anything on children's arms would lead to very serious consequences.

High-frequency generators are used in all science classes to demonstrate how to ionize gases. Several teachers (see video made by Uni-Bonn) use it briefly on themselves or on student volunteers. The resulting skin marks fade away very quickly - in a day or two. The shape of the mark is irrelevant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNcWJbGksec

2 Replies

@High Seas,

So the teacher concerned said.

(By the way) hanging a 10 commandments chart on the wall of a classroom would not be acceptable in state schools, either ...

0 Replies

@msolga,

Quote:

Burning anything on children's arms would lead to very serious consequences.

Aaah! The hand that rocks the cradle steps forth to protect our children and wrap them in the swaddling clothes of its matronly care so that they can one day come to defend our interests on the battlefields of Afghanistan and points north, south, east, and west and is strangely silent on the 55,000 concussions CBS News reports result from the playing of American football.

Turn it up Olga for goodness sake.

I have set fire to the hair of a number of students to demonstrate the spectacular effects of a Van-de-Graff generator. Everybody laughed. Nobody ran off home to tell their Moms and if they had their Mom would have laughed too. But perhaps in this case the Mom thought there might be compensation. She should have overlaid the mark made by Mr Freshwater with a proper burn and rushed off to a lawyer. Or at least tried to claim "internal injuries" or "mental trauma".

Why don't you exercise your need to express deeply felt concern on the kids in Haiti or Pakistan flood regions? Your eagerness in this case does give rise to a suspicion.

2 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

I have no idea who finaced the case, but I imagine that several Chriastian organizations and the Discovery Institute, The Cornerstone Projects, as well as some unknown 501 c-(3) organization may have been behind it. Thats an interesting point though and worth a bit of a search on the web. all Id need is a case docket number or else I could just ask the question on Google.

There was a one-page judgment entered on the dismissal. It has the docket number:

http://ncse.com/webfm_send/1449

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

I can't open the file wande. Will you do it for us and then we can have an answer to the burning question of whether the financing of Mr Freshwater's case was arranged by several Chriastian organizations, the Discovery Institute, The Cornerstone Projects and some unknown, shadowy cloak and dagger 501 c-(3) organization creeping up upon us in the dark. If it is the case, rather than a figment of fm's imaginings, how much moolah was involved, who were the previous owners of the aforesaid moolah and who are its owners now?

We are scientists after all. Aren't we?

Do you think the kid has been harmed more by the case than by the alleged burn on his arm? I assume it wasn't a girl.

1 Reply

FURTHER UPDATE ON OHIO SCIENCE TEACHER

Quote:

Science teacher didn't get settlement
(By Stephanie Czekalinski, THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH, October 23, 2010)

The Mount Vernon school district did not offer a settlement to a teacher accused of teaching religion in his eighth-grade science class, an attorney representing the district said.

On Thursday, John Freshwater's attorneys filed a notice to dismiss a lawsuit that he filed against current and former Mount Vernon school-board members. The schools are trying to fire Freshwater; his lawsuit in U.S. District Court said his civil rights and right to freedom of speech were violated.

The suit is not ending because of a settlement, said attorney Sarah Moore, who represents the district in the civil case. "I can confirm there was no settlement, and we're not expecting any."

In June 2008, the district announced its intention to fire Freshwater, who school officials said taught religion in his science class. Freshwater is fighting their move to oust him in an administrative hearing.

Freshwater wrote in an e-mail via his attorney that he was offered money several times to leave the district and withdraw his appeal, but he rejected those offers. He decided to drop the civil lawsuit and wait to hear the recommendation from the referee of the administrative hearing, R. Lee Shepherd, the e-mail said.

"He is the ONLY person to hear all of the testimony and most importantly see all of the students from my 2007-2008 class speak about the truth of what went on during my class," Freshwater wrote.

Freshwater said he and his wife have spent their life savings on the dispute.

David Millstone, the attorney representing the school district in the administrative hearing, said he didn't know when there would be a ruling. Shepherd could not be reached for this story. The hearing has been going on almost two years.

0 Replies

@spendius,

For heavens' sake - something is wrong with your connection if you can't open a simple .pdf file - unless of course this is yet another manifestation of the dastardly plot to take over the world, abolish religion, impose dictatorship of the proletariat, and blah, blah, blah. This is Wandel's .pdf file:

Quote:

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF OHIO, EASTERN DIVISION
JOHN D. FRESHWATER, et al. :
: Case No. 2:09cv464
Plaintiffs, :
: JUDGE FROST
v. :
: Magistrate Judge King
MOUNT VERNON CITY SCHOOL :
DISTRICT BOARD OF EDUCATION, :
et al. :
:
Defendants. :
STIPULATED DISMISSAL WITH PREJUDICE PURSUANT TO RULE 41(a)(1)(A)(ii)
FOR ALL CLAIMS OF PLAINTIFFS JOHN AND NANCY FRESHWATER
Now come all parties, by and through counsel, to stipulate Plaintiffs John and Nancy
Freshwater dismiss all claims contained in the First Amended Complaint with prejudice pursuant
to Civ.R. 41(a)(1)(A)(ii).
Respectfully submitted,
s/Nicole M. Donovsky (per authority 10.20.10)
Nicole M. Donovsky, Esq. (0072262)
Richard W. Ross, Esq. (0009363)
MEANS, BICHIMER, BURKHOLDER
& BAKER CO., L.P.A.
1650 Lake Shore Drive, Suite 285
Columbus, Ohio 43204
T: (614) 485-2010; F: (614) 485-2019
Attorneys for Defendant Lynda Weston
E: [email protected]
E: [email protected]
s/Sarah J. Moore (per authority 10.20.10)
David K. Smith, Esq. (0016208)
Krista K. Keim, Esq.(0067144)
Sarah J. Moore, Esq.(0065381)
BRITTON, SMITH, PETERS & KALAIL, CO., LPA
3 Summit Park Drive, Suite 400
Cleveland, Ohio 44131
Attorneys for Defendants Mt. Vernon City School
District Board of Education, Ian Watson, Jody
Goetzman, Steve Short and William White
E: [email protected]
s/R. Kelly Hamilton (per written authority 10212010)
R. Kelly Hamilton, Esq. (0066403)
THE LAW OFFICE OF R. KELLY HAMILTON
P.O. Box 824
Grove City, Ohio 43123
Attorney for Plaintiffs John D. Freshwater and
Nancy Freshwater
E. [email protected]
s/Larry C. Greathouse (per authority 10.20.10)
Larry C. Greathouse, Esq. (0008513)
Mark Turner, Esq. (0075516)
GALLAGHER SHARP
1501 Euclid Avenue
Sixth Floor, Bulkley Building
Cleveland, Ohio 44115
Attorney for Defendants H.R. Oncall, Inc.,
Thomas J. Herlevi and Julia F. Herlevi
E: [email protected]
s/C. Joseph McCullough (per authority 10.20.10)
C. Joseph McCullough, Esq. (0069844)
WHITE, GETGEY & MEYER CO., LPA
8977 Columbia Road, Suite A
Loveland, Ohio 45140
Attorney for Defendant Lynda Weston
E: [email protected]
Case: 2:09-cv-00464-GLF-NMK Doc #: 106 Filed: 10/21/10 Page: 1 of 1 PAGEID #: 887

1 Reply

i'm a firm supporter of devolution, the sooner we all revert back to one celled organisms, the better off we'll be

1 Reply

@spendius,

It's the law of the state.
As simple as that.
And teachers must abide by the law as a condition of employment.
Even you would understand that, surely?

1 Reply

@High Seas,

Apprently Freshwaters burning of the cross, using a Tesla coil has been documented in the early phases of this case. There was a link to the Columbus Newspapaer that showed the arms of several kids and the designs qere clearly crucifixes . As far as fading, most skin lesions and scars will fade with time, but IMHO, thats irrelevant.

A kids limb resistance is about 100 ohms , a tesla coil can tcause severe burns, and to have them take the shape of a cross is a design choice of the teacher. It wasnt just one kids but about 2 or 3 who had the signs burnt into their arms.

Thatll never come out in a case now.

I havent been able to find anything except some doodah from the plaintiff attorey web site. It appears that Freshwater was on his own in this case.

Although he claims that there was a cash settlement offer, the plaintiffs deny any money was even discussed let alone offered.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

I'm sure you're right on the facts of the specific case of the Ohio teacher - my comment was a general one, intended for readers not familiar with the electrical device involved. Btw, I rather think we're not going to see Ionus back here for a while, he's been on a ladies only thread for the last hour, making offers of a sexual nature and getting no takers > http://able2know.org/topic/159746-12#post-4390338
> while Spendius managed to miss the Faraday and religion connection on the Obama thread > http://able2know.org/topic/71145-1821#post-4389926
which really makes me wonder about the depth of his scientific background. But I agree with Setanta on the matter of not engaging some posters. I'm also wondering about your complaint on potential damage to your professional reputation, since you don't sign your real name here.

3 Replies

@High Seas,

well, I expect that, sooner or later, when enough people meet me, I will be not an avatar any longer. Ive had several colleagues who, after being on facebook through school for sebveral years, and they then let information out on another of these bulletin boards, was found out and , under the requirements of ciurt qwork, she went in a "DAubert Hearing" in which a lot of her rantings on the bulletin board were presented to her and her testimony was impeached and she was dismissed by her client.
Now, in my defense, Ive pretty much kept my irrational stuff limited to scientifc or natural history topics. I did once get into a really hot argument with an artist about Andrew Wyeth . (He was an old abstract expressionist). Ive also, on the other side, argued abstract expressionism (I was on the affirmative in this case) with ANUS just to hear what hes made of.

AS far as spendis scientific knowledge (remember he says hes a chemist). He didnt know Avogadroa number and he argued that he tried to dismiss it as if he doesnt use the value weekly.(Thats bullshit) Even if he had it progrmmed into his i-phone hed recall a number that sounded like 6.02 X 10-23 is familiar territory. He claimed that , in essence,he never heard of it. Every kid in first year intro chem hers of ot and its purpose is further developed as years go by.

2 Replies

I wish the case had gone through the court. I believe it would have helped more people to understand why the man did not belong in that class.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

some hints about Mr. Freshwaters' backers here

more specifics about the dispute as well

Mr. Freshwater wasn't the wide-eyed victim some of his supporters would have liked to portray

http://www.au.org/media/church-and-state/archives/2010/03/mr-freshwaters-classroom.html

4 Replies

@farmerman,

Examples of professionals who've been criticized for their online comments abound - and I'm sure all of us can be tracked by name after a sufficient accumulation of data. However all people I've first run into on the internet and subsequently met in person have been punctilious about not disclosing any of my personal details online. As far as I can tell Ionus claims no personal acquaintance with you or other posters here - could be wrong of course, I don't read every page on this thread or on any other. Generally, it would be nice if the personal insult part could be toned down or eliminated by all parties but for some reason I don't know that seems very difficult to accomplish here. Advance thanks to posters who will eschew polemics and stick to facts!

0 Replies

@ehBeth,

Thanks, Beth.
Very interesting!

0 Replies

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