cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 7 Oct, 2008 11:58 am
@Debra Law,
It's because they can't see the obvious. They have all become robots.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Tue 7 Oct, 2008 02:08 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
Palin's routine attacks on the media have begun to spill into ugliness. In Clearwater, arriving reporters were greeted with shouts and taunts by the crowd of about 3,000. Palin then went on to blame Katie Couric's questions for her "less-than-successful interview with kinda mainstream media." At that, Palin supporters turned on reporters in the press area, waving thunder sticks and shouting abuse. Others hurled obscenities at a camera crew. One Palin supporter shouted a racial epithet at an African American sound man for a network and told him, "Sit down, boy."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/06/AR2008100602935.html

I was struck by the hate I heard in the voices on TV. The people at Palin/McCain rallies hate Obama and were more than willing to voice their opinion.

Conservatives, you ought to take a hard look at what's going on... this **** is unsupportable and clearly a problem for your side.

Cycloptichorn

I'm still waiting for the headline "Palineurotics" (similar to "Obamaniacs" etc). However, the press does Obama no favors. I do wonder how long the press will offer the carrot before they pull out the stick.

T
K
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 7 Oct, 2008 02:10 pm
@Diest TKO,
From what I heard, someone in Palin's crowd shouted "kill Ayers."

Those conservatives are full of compassion.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Tue 7 Oct, 2008 02:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It just seems desperate to me. Palin is talking about Ayers and Rev Wright.

1) The press has already been there, it's yesterday's news.
2) Since the press goes to where excitement is (as all ratings based media does) and the press is following her around, why don't thye leverage her media platform to push forward their agenda instead of wasting their time with attacks that won't get any traction.

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sozobe
 
  2  
Tue 7 Oct, 2008 02:45 pm
@Diest TKO,
Yes, I've seen that a couple of places and I really agree. Just refuse to cover her if she won't agree to a press conference.

CNN tried to do that during Palin's United Nations visit and got somewhere, but not very far.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Tue 7 Oct, 2008 03:11 pm
@Diest TKO,
Palin kept saying to Biden, "you're looking back instead of forward."

She doesn't understand her own conflicts.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Tue 7 Oct, 2008 04:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
T
K
Or doesn't care...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 7 Oct, 2008 04:09 pm
@Diest TKO,
That's a given. McCain-Palin doesn't care what they say anymore, because they have essentially already lost the election. Their negative rhetoric will only succeed in turning off more conservatives, but more importantly, the independents.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Tue 7 Oct, 2008 04:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I wouldn't go as far as to say that the McCain camp has admitted defeat and is now just being petty. Honestly, they could still win, but every chance they have to make a game changer, they flounder.

McCain's central argument is that he isn't experienced enough RE: "not ready to lead." If McCain is going to make this argument then he had better be able to make Obama look like an amateur. Instead, what the public sees is that Obama can go a full ten rounds with McCain. So if you are a moderate/independent/swing voter, what you may be waiting to see from McCain is for him to prove it, and not just say it. Otherwise, the contrast in experience and skill is nullified.

It's a potent attack if he could back it up, but he has failed to do so and is running out of chances to do it; install doubt in swing voters.

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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 7 Oct, 2008 04:36 pm
@Diest TKO,
I wish Obama would point that out. I really do. You put it exactly right.

Cycloptichorn
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Tue 7 Oct, 2008 04:46 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Maybe he will. If I was Obama, and I planned to do just that, I'd wait until the very last debate to do it though.

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firefly
 
  1  
Wed 8 Oct, 2008 03:19 am
@Diest TKO,
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/o/G/2/palin-piggyback.jpg
firefly
 
  1  
Wed 8 Oct, 2008 03:30 am
@firefly,
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/Q/H/2/shake-up-tt080905.gif
firefly
 
  2  
Wed 8 Oct, 2008 03:53 am
@firefly,
The New York Times
October 8, 2008
Op-Ed Columnist

Palin’s Kind of Patriotism
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Criticizing Sarah Palin is truly shooting fish in a barrel. But given the huge attention she is getting, you can’t just ignore what she has to say. And there was one thing she said in the debate with Joe Biden that really sticks in my craw. It was when she turned to Biden and declared: “You said recently that higher taxes or asking for higher taxes or paying higher taxes is patriotic. In the middle class of America, which is where Todd and I have been all of our lives, that’s not patriotic.”

What an awful statement. Palin defended the government’s $700 billion rescue plan. She defended the surge in Iraq, where her own son is now serving. She defended sending more troops to Afghanistan. And yet, at the same time, she declared that Americans who pay their fair share of taxes to support all those government-led endeavors should not be considered patriotic.

I only wish she had been asked: “Governor Palin, if paying taxes is not considered patriotic in your neighborhood, who is going to pay for the body armor that will protect your son in Iraq? Who is going to pay for the bailout you endorsed? If it isn’t from tax revenues, there are only two ways to pay for those big projects " printing more money or borrowing more money. Do you think borrowing money from China is more patriotic than raising it in taxes from Americans?” That is not putting America first. That is selling America first.

Sorry, I grew up in a very middle-class family in a very middle-class suburb of Minneapolis, and my parents taught me that paying taxes, while certainly no fun, was how we paid for the police and the Army, our public universities and local schools, scientific research and Medicare for the elderly. No one said it better than Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes: “I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.”

I can understand someone saying that the government has no business bailing out the financial system, but I can’t understand someone arguing that we should do that but not pay for it with taxes. I can understand someone saying we have no business in Iraq, but I can’t understand someone who advocates staying in Iraq until “victory” declaring that paying taxes to fund that is not patriotic.

How in the world can conservative commentators write with a straight face that this woman should be vice president of the United States? Do these people understand what serious trouble our country is in right now?

We are in the middle of an economic perfect storm, and we don’t know how much worse it’s going to get. People all over the world are hoarding cash, and no bank feels that it can fully trust anyone it is doing business with anywhere in the world. Did you notice that the government of Iceland just seized the country’s second-largest bank and today is begging Russia for a $5 billion loan to stave off “national bankruptcy.” What does that say? It tells you that financial globalization has gone so much farther and faster than regulatory institutions could govern it. Our crisis could bankrupt Iceland! Who knew?

And we have not yet even felt the full economic brunt here. I fear we may be at that moment just before the tsunami hits " when the birds take flight and the insects stop chirping because their acute senses can feel what is coming before humans can. At this moment, only good governance can save us. I am not sure that this crisis will end without every government in every major economy guaranteeing the creditworthiness of every financial institution it regulates. That may be the only way to get lending going again. Organizing something that big and complex will take some really smart governance and seasoned leadership.

Whether or not I agree with John McCain, he is of presidential timber. But putting the country in the position where a total novice like Sarah Palin could be asked to steer us through possibly the most serious economic crisis of our lives is flat out reckless. It is the opposite of conservative.

And please don’t tell me she will hire smart advisers. What happens when her two smartest advisers disagree?

And please also don’t tell me she is an “energy expert.” She is an energy expert exactly the same way the king of Saudi Arabia is an energy expert " by accident of residence. Palin happens to be governor of the Saudi Arabia of America " Alaska " and the only energy expertise she has is the same as the king of Saudi Arabia’s. It’s about how the windfall profits from the oil in their respective kingdoms should be divided between the oil companies and the people.

At least the king of Saudi Arabia, in advocating “drill baby drill,” is serving his country’s interests " by prolonging America’s dependence on oil. My problem with Palin is that she is also serving his country’s interests " by prolonging America’s dependence on oil. That’s not patriotic. Patriotic is offering a plan to build our economy " not by tax cuts or punching more holes in the ground, but by empowering more Americans to work in productive and innovative jobs. If Palin has that kind of a plan, I haven’t heard it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/08/opinion/08friedman.html?hp

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/h/K/2/palin-rose-sb0926d.jpg
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 8 Oct, 2008 08:10 am
@firefly,
Quote:
The bloom is off the rose.


True only in a limited sense (for independent voters and thoughtful conservatives - in this cycle) I think.

But for "the base", there's good reason to expect her to become the new heroic icon and hope for future electoral chances and continuance of the movement.

Her anti-intellectualism and her extremist/exclusivist version of christianity are/will be key here. As will her almost certain loss in the election because it validates two other key notions for this base; the sense or perception of constant and overwhelming cultural victimization and (these are related conceptions) the oppressive headwind of an enemy media.

What we'll see her get up to after the election is interesting to imagine. Movement strategists will, I fully expect, work to keep her front and center in the national conversation. A role at Fox is a real possibility. Over the next four years, she will have time to ramp up her knowledge and her interview skills.

Two things might undercut the potential for her here; some revelation(s) which make her untenable in such a strategic path or her gender.

This last one is particularly interesting. Though the movement has strong women in positions of leadership (Schlafley, say) it is also seriously conflicted by its affinity for an authoritarian/Daddy hierarchy (eg the Southern Baptist Confederation policy on gender in leadership). Broader cultural trends toward gender equality may negate this prior conceptual/value framework but it may not.

The person for whom any bloom will be truly gone (in the movement) will be McCain. The tragic bugger is going to be eviscerated.

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 8 Oct, 2008 08:35 am
ps... conservatism, in America, is about to move into a period of serious internal reflection and reorganization. A lot of this will be ugly.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 8 Oct, 2008 02:11 pm
@blatham,
I agree; not many republican congressional members are supporting Bush or McCain. They've now seen the destruction of our economy and international relationships after eight years of Bush, and have realized that supporting party without living their party principles is bad not only for our country, but for the world at-large. Besides, this economy has also hurt their own pocketbooks; that hurt on the personal level.

McCain would have no leadership role for most of the GOP congress members, and I'm pretty sure they're also confused with his flip-flops on the major issues of our day. "Our economy is strong" doesn't show much judgment when we have a world financial crisis one week after he said it.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Wed 8 Oct, 2008 03:59 pm

It looks like since Obama isn't comfortable taking it there others are.

T
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0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Wed 8 Oct, 2008 04:02 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Palin’s Kind of Patriotism
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Sorry, I grew up in a very middle-class family in a very middle-class suburb of Minneapolis, and my parents taught me that paying taxes, while certainly no fun, was how we paid for the police and the Army, our public universities and local schools, scientific research and Medicare for the elderly. No one said it better than Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes: “I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.”



I was quite taken by this when I read it earlier today.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Wed 8 Oct, 2008 04:13 pm
@firefly,
After the rose died, only the thorns were left.
 

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