McCain's VP:

@FreeDuck,

What she thinks has been exposed by her actions and rhetoric while mayor and governor, and her actions and rhetoric since she was selected by McCain as his veep.

Most have already been detailed on these political threads, the media, and tv.

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@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

Sometimes it is hard to know when to let well enough alone, I guess. Stuff like that -- openly making fun of her -- crosses some kind of boundary. It really does feel like piling on and thats not without risk of backlash. Yes, shes not ready for national leadership but that doesnt make her stupid. We would all do well to hold our tongues until after the debate.

Well, heck. What if you do think she's stupid? That's the position I find myself in. What is one to do? Just pretend that she deserves deference? Nah.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

We really dont know what she thinks. Look, I would not vote for her, I have my issues with her, but as long as she is self destructing there is no need to throw her a lifeline by giving her fans something to push back against.

there is something to giving her enough rope. have to be careful though. it's not likely that anyone is telling her to take it easy on ol' joe biden.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Well, heck. What if you do think she's stupid? That's the position I find myself in.

There's a difference between making a poor decision (accepting the VP candidacy) and being stupid.

She just over-reached. That isn't contemptible.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Well, heck. What if you do think she's stupid? That's the position I find myself in.

There's a difference between making a poor decision (accepting the VP candidacy) and being stupid.

She just over-reached. That isn't contemptible.

Well, I agree. But that's not what I'm talking about. It's more her inability to give coherent answers to relatively simple questions that get me. Because that scares the **** out of me - she might be elected in a month. And laughing about it helps relieve the fear, that we might have another idiot in there running things.

Just my opinion, though.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

She's very sharp to a point, and very aggressive.

If she were a pond, there would be a no diving sign...

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@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

We really dont know what she thinks. Look, I would not vote for her, I have my issues with her, but as long as she is self destructing there is no need to throw her a lifeline by giving her fans something to push back against.

I get that you're afraid of a backlash from overdoing it. I understand why you're encouraging restraint. But, there is a danger in under-reacting as well. Look in retrospect at John Kerry's initial lack of response to the Swiftboaters.

The McCain campaign is wisely limiting access to what certainly appears to be a woefully under prepared running mate... which is seriously limiting the opportunities for Americans to honestly assess her. Now in one of very few opportunities for Americans to do so; she dropped the ball. Hell, she didn't appear to even know what the ball was. In my opinion; it is very much in the Obama Campaign's best interest to exploit such an obvious display of incompetence... and the more often the better. There is nothing unfair about holding her accountable for what comes out of her mouth, and I see very little risk of backlash for it.

I also think keeping this train wreck of a story alive; should force the McCain Campaign to get her out of the witness protection program, to face the public more often. Whether she does better or worse in the future; I for one would like to learn more about the candidate that may well be a heartbeat away from the Presidency. Granted; I don't think more Palin interviews will work well for McCain, but that's all the more reason to goad them into providing them.

For the record: I feel bad for her myself... because I think she is an accomplished, capable woman, who has been promoted to a position that is way beyond her current competence. I feel no compulsion to vote for her to make her feel better about that. If she has been promoted to a position of incompetence, even though it's through no fault of her own, tough luck. She is on the ticket to be the VP of the United States and she must be properly vetted and held accountable for her behavior, just like anyone else.

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@Rockhead,

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@OCCOM BILL,

She's gonna go on the Conservative talk radio circuit, supposedly.

Cycloptichorn

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@OCCOM BILL,

OCCOM BILL wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:

We really dont know what she thinks. Look, I would not vote for her, I have my issues with her, but as long as she is self destructing there is no need to throw her a lifeline by giving her fans something to push back against.

I get that you're afraid of a backlash from overdoing it. I understand why you're encouraging restraint. But, there is a danger in under-reacting as well. Look in retrospect at John Kerry's initial lack of response to the Swiftboaters.

Do you really see any comparison between fighting back against smears and piling on to an opponent while they are voluntarily self-destructing?

Quote:

...snip... In my opinion; it is very much in the Obama Campaign's best interest to exploit such an obvious display of incompetence... and the more often the better. There is nothing unfair about holding her accountable for what comes out of her mouth, and I see very little risk of backlash for it.

I disagree. There is a risk of people beginning to identify with her. Let the media pick her apart, but the Obama campaign needs to treat her with the respect due a governor.

Quote:

...snip... I don't think more Palin interviews will work well for McCain, but that's all the more reason to goad them into providing them.

I agree and I think they will put her out more, though in friendlier and smaller venues. I think they need to get her out more so she can get warmed up instead of plopping her cold turkey into a prime time interview. I just don't think it's necessary to pile on and harp on her stupid answers. They speak for themselves.

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@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

Quote:

I disagree. There is a risk of people beginning to identify with her. Let the media pick her apart, but the Obama campaign needs to treat her with the respect due a governor.

What in hell are you talking about? Let Palin swing away with lies and innuendos, then sit back and do nothing? You are kidding, aren't you? Palin is no "lady" in any sense of he word. Do you understand the difference?

Let people identify with her; some of the worst political personalities on this planet had followers too! Doesn't mean Palin can be trusted to do what's good for our country; she's way in over her head, but still doesn't realize it or admit it. That is dangerous.

1 Reply

@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

I just don't think it's necessary to pile on and harp on her stupid answers. They speak for themselves.

They only speak for themselves when people hear them. I sure didn't watch the Couric interview live. Cyclo encouraged me to (and still owes me 5 minutes and 8 seconds for it Wink

). The more discussion about it; the more people take the time to actually see it. Curiosity gets the better of them. We don't need to agree here. I understand your position... and know to an extent you are right. I just don't find the downside more compelling than the upside, myself.

As for the Kerry thing: No, if that's how you took it, I don't see a similarity. What I see is that an opportunity lost in a campaign; is sometimes an opportunity lost that can’t be regained. A point here and a point there matter. We just disagree on how best to make them.

By the way, Kerry was mostly on my mind because I watched the O'Reilly Factor tonight. Kerry was on and in rare form. I thought he slapped O'Reilly around, handily (not an easy thing to do) and more forcefully than I thought he had in him. I agreed with every word he said, and wondered not for the first time if I should have voted for him. But ya... that was a stretch.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:

Quote:
I disagree. There is a risk of people beginning to identify with her. Let the media pick her apart, but the Obama campaign needs to treat her with the respect due a governor.

What in hell are you talking about? Let Palin swing away with lies and innuendos, then sit back and do nothing? You are kidding, aren't you? Palin is no "lady" in any sense of he word. Do you understand the difference?

You clearly have no idea what I'm talking about. No. Let Palin swing away with answers so nonsensical that they can be lampooned on SNL without changing a word. But Obama's campaign (and his supporters) needs to pretend not to notice the public farting.

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@OCCOM BILL,

OCCOM BILL wrote:

By the way, Kerry was mostly on my mind because I watched the O'Reilly Factor tonight. Kerry was on and in rare form. I thought he slapped O'Reilly around, handily (not an easy thing to do) and more forcefully than I thought he had in him. I agreed with every word he said, and wondered not for the first time if I should have voted for him. But ya... that was a stretch.

Kerry can be pretty bad ass when he's not running for president. I remember being taken by that a while back when he was on some news show as an Obama surrogate. Where was this guy in 2004?

As for the down side to harping on Palin... call it an intuition about femininity. I see the possibility for a nasty little jujitsu for the overconfident.

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

This is interesting... there may be even WORSE stuff from the Couric interview that hasn't aired yet:

Howard Kurtz wrote:
]It may have been a turning point for Couric, who was persistent without being overbearing, in shedding early doubts about her ability to be a commanding presence in the CBS anchor chair. And the worst may be yet to come for Palin; sources say CBS has two more responses on tape that will likely prove embarrassing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/28/AR2008092802587_3.html

Jonathan Martin at Politico has more:

Quote:

The Palin aide, after first noting how "infuriating" it was for CBS to purportedly leak word about the gaffe, revealed that it came in response to a question about Supreme Court decisions.

After noting Roe vs. Wade, Palin was apparently unable to discuss any major court cases.

There was no verbal fumbling with this particular question as there was with some others, the aide said, but rather silence.

1 Reply

@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote: "Let the media pick her apart, but the Obama campaign needs to treat her with the respect due a governor."

And both McCain and Palin treat Obama with the respect due to a United States Senator?

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@Debra Law,

Debra Law wrote:

FreeDuck wrote: "Let the media pick her apart, but the Obama campaign needs to treat her with the respect due a governor."

And both McCain and Palin treat Obama with the respect due to a United States Senator?

no. of course they don't, deb. theoretically, that's what the separartion is supposed to be between hardcore rightists and just about everyone else; other than hardcore leftists.

at some point, palin is almost guaranteed to leave herself open to a that one real zinger that is undeniable.

that said, at some point either obama or biden will have to pick a time when they smack the podium and get real pissed. the gop has had the monopoly on moral indignation for far too long.

it may have devolved into a game; but i guess that's how we do it these days.

1 Reply

@DontTreadOnMe,

It's hard to say DTOM. As for Moral indignation, Obama has done better to endure these attacks with grace rather than indignation.

One of the observations I've had over the last 18 months (last 7 months specifically) is that Obama's campaign is defies a lot of previously sworn by rules of the game. If Obama wins, we may ave to re-examine what we know about voter psychology. However, I won't dismiss that things like the economy are in his favor, so some of his popularity may stem from things outside of his own campaign and out of his control.

Let McCain run and old style GOP campaign. In fact, let him go even harder. I don't think it will be enough to win. Then perhaps afterwards, the republican party will examine it's loss and realize that using fear and divisive tactics isn't as advantageous as it used to be.

Then maybe some of the republican leadership will strive to be more compromising. The old my candle burns brighter when I blow out yours, is a mentality that needs to die and be left in the history books. I'm talking about the republicans, so now you know I'm being over optimistic.

T
K
Optimistic.

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@Debra Law,

Debra Law wrote:

FreeDuck wrote: "Let the media pick her apart, but the Obama campaign needs to treat her with the respect due a governor."

And both McCain and Palin treat Obama with the respect due to a United States Senator?

No, they dont. And it reflects badly on them. Makes them look petty and small. And it is ineffective.

1 Reply

@FreeDuck,

Eyep.

1 Reply

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