sozobe
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 03:54 pm
@squinney,
Good points. I agree. Especially point #2.
sozobe
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 04:08 pm
@sozobe,
Matt Yglesias brought this up a while ago and now it seems to be confirmed -- McCain apparently has met Palin once (before yesterday) and talked to her for five minutes on the phone. That's it.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/08/the_daily_bricabrac_sarah.php
squinney
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 04:09 pm
@sozobe,
Another point I meant to make is that when it became clear that Bush didn't know what the hell he was doing, the claim was that at least he surrounded himself with people who had experience.

We've already seen where that got us.

I don't see that being necessary for Obama or Biden. They can each stand alone as president.

(Damn... gotta go check out the "now you see it, now you don't" news on Palin investigation.)
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 04:09 pm
@sozobe,
Mind boggling. Truly.

It really goes to show that McCain didn't pick her for any other reason, then to get a momentary bump in the polls. Or something.

Cycloptichorn
squinney
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 04:12 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
See the last paragraph of my post on previous page. I REALLY don't think he wants to win. A bump isn't a strategy for winners.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  3  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 04:13 pm
@squinney,
squinney wrote:
I don't see that being necessary for Obama or Biden. They can each stand alone as president.


I agree with that too.

Quote:
(Damn... gotta go check out the "now you see it, now you don't" news on Palin investigation.)


Here's some -- it's brief yet, but TPM was on the Palin story before any of this happened, and they usually come up with good stuff. They're the ones who broke the attorney general scandal. (Gonzales, Goodling et al.)

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/211443.php
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 04:17 pm
@sozobe,
Some background:

Quote:
A Tick-Tock of The Big Palin Scandal

In Alaska, it's known as Troopergate and, sometimes, Wootengate.

Newly selected GOP vice-presidential nominee Sarah Palin, Alaska's first female governor, has been dogged by controversy since July 11, when she fired Public Safety Commissoner Walter Monegan. At the time, a spokesperson for Palin said the 44-year-old governor wanted to take the public safety department in a new direction. Monegan said any complaints from the governor about his job performance had "never been communicated" to him.

Then things started to get messy. Reports arose that Palin had fired Monegan because, despite pressure from her, her family, and her staff, he had refused to fire State Trooper Mike Wooten, the ex-husband of Palin's sister, Molly McCann. Monegan told The Anchorage Daily News that "for better than a year," his office had received phone calls and other inquiries from Palin's office and even her husband, Todd, about why Wooten hadn't been dismissed. At the time, he was embroiled in a custody fight with McCann. Todd said he had set up a meeting with Monegan in December 2006, just after his wife took office, to discuss Wooten, but insisted that he never told Monegan to fire the trooper.

Palin has claimed that she didn't know about any pressure being placed on Monegan. On August 13, she released a recording of a call placed by her boards and commissions director Frank Bailey to trooper Lt. Rodney Dial in February. In the call, Bailey accused Wooten of misconduct, including lying on an application, and said that Palin was concerned about Monegan's inaction. Palin also acknowledged that other members of her staff, including her chief of staff Mike Tibbles, had contacted Monegan about Wooten roughly two dozen times. Palin insisted that she had "only now become aware of" the contacts. She quickly placed Bailey on paid leave.

Palin and her family, however, have been feuding with Wooten since 2005, when he and Molly divorced, and the governor hasn't been hands-off in the debate. In August 2005, Palin sent a lengthy e-mail to Colonel Julia Grimes, director of the state's troopers, with a litany of complaints about Wooten's conduct. She accused Wooten of driving drunk, using illegal hunting techniques, abusing and cheating on his wife, threatening to kill his father-in-law, and tasering his stepson, Payton, in the presence of the governor's daughter, Bristol. "It is my understanding that months ago you were made aware of Wooten's problems," Palin wrote. "So the question begs: Is it acceptable for an Alaska State Trooper to use his badge and power in the aforementioned ways?"

In March 2006, Grimes suspended Wooten for ten working days, citing the tasering incident, illegal hunting, and drinking in his trooper vehicle. Monegan has alleged that Palin's staff and family continued to exert pressure on him to fire Wooten until his dismissal last month.

Now, Palin is facing a state ethics investigation about possible misconduct in Monegan's firing. Approved by Alaska's legislature, the investigation will cost at least $100,000 and be conducted by Anchorage prosecutor Stephen Branchflower, under the supervision of state senator Hollis French, a Democrat. The legislature has asked for an initial report by October 31, just prior to the general election November 4.

--Seyward Darby


http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/08/29/a-tick-tock-of-the-big-palin-scandal.aspx

So it was the husband, as well. There are some rumors that he has his fingers in a whole lot of pies up there.

The Alaskan GOP is a corrupt place, and I have no idea why anyone thinks Palin would be either immune or removed from it...

Like Soz said, TPM is revealing that she is hiding emails in this case; that certainly doesn't speak well of her innocence, now does it? And the report drops a week before the election?

What was McCain thinking?!!?!?!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 04:24 pm
@squinney,
squinney wrote:
That gets most of my initial impressions. I really don't get the selection of her for VP unless McCains realizing he doesn't really have it in him to be president but has to keep going through the motions since it is so late in the game.
I remember hearing a lot of speculation that the Democrats wanted Ferraro on the ticket for the feather in their cap that they did it... and thought, "Why not? We're going to lose anyway." I don't see McCain being the underdog Mondale was; but do see this as a Hail Mary throw.

From the few times I've seen her speak; I like her. She comes off as a very intelligent, capable woman.

Some other thoughts:
1. Biden is an attack dog, and a good one, who I think was tapped in part because of his presumed ability to show up Romney or whomever McCain chose. Not so fast. If he goes after Palin the way he would have Romney; there could be some serious blowback. Obama had to handle Hillary much more delicately than he would have, say, Edwards, and now Biden will have to reign in the macho too.

2. McCain is easy to paint as the Washington insider, despite his occasional deviations from the pack. The Palin pick will make it much harder to paint him this way. His "Maverick credentials" may be back on the table (after a year of backpedaling.)

3. While it is true that McCain's VP pick in some ways nullifies his experience criticism of Obama... at the same time it pretty much guarantees it will be a prominent talking point. Advantage McCain.

3.a) McCain's age goes a very long way towards nullifying that advantage.

4. Despite Palin's almost non-existent relevant track record; outside of the "cop getting fired" thing, she provides very little history for a Soros or Moore to conflate into something heinous. Vicious unfounded attacks on an attractive small town glass-ceiling breaker, would likely do less damage than the blowback that would follow.

5. If McCain thought Hillary supporters are naive enough to jump at the next woman, despite her politics; I think he'll be disappointed. There will be some more fools who go that route, but they'll be relatively few and far between. Ultimately; I think there will be more anti-woman-CIC types than there will be bitter Hill-people-crossovers.

Early Conclusion: I think McCain forfeited his biggest advantage. (Experience was and still is going to be his advantage, so that's not it.) What he's done is provided a disadvantage by way of misogyny that will offset his presumed advantage by way of bigotry. How many people do not feel comfortable with a woman for President? I'm guessing a similar number to those who don't feel comfortable electing a black man.

Early Conclusion II: I think it is flat out ******* cool that these two negatives are both being superseded by other considerations this cycle!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 04:24 pm
Uh oh #2. Turns out she wasn't all that against the 'bridge to nowhere,' like McCain claimed she was today.

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/08/29/did-palin-really-fight-the-bridge-to-nowhere.aspx

Quote:

29.08.2008
Did Palin Really Fight The “Bridge To Nowhere”?

Republicans have been heavily touting Sarah Palin's reformist credentials, with her supposed opposition to Alaska's "Bridge to Nowhere" as Exhibit A. But how hard did she really fight the project? Not very, it seems. Here's what she told the Anchorage Daily News on October 22, 2006, during the race for the governor's seat (via Nexis):

5. Would you continue state funding for the proposed Knik Arm and Gravina Island bridges?

Yes. I would like to see Alaska's infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now--while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist.


So she was very much for the bridge and insisted that Alaska had to act quickly"the party of Ted Stevens and Don Young might soon lose its majority, after all. By that point, the project was endangered for reasons that had nothing to do with Palin"the bridge had become a national laughingstock, Congress had stripped away the offending earmark, shifting the money back to the state's general fund, and future federal support seemed unlikely. True, after Palin was sworn into office that fall, her first budget didn't allocate any money for the bridge. But when the Daily News asked on December 16, 2006, if she now opposed the project, Palin demurred and said she was just trying to figure out where the bridge fit on the state's list of transportation priorities, given the lack of support from Congress. Finally, on September 19, 2007, she decided to redirect funds away from the project altogether with this sorry-sounding statement:

"Ketchikan desires a better way to reach the airport, but the $398 million bridge is not the answer," said Governor Palin. "Despite the work of our congressional delegation, we are about $329 million short of full funding for the bridge project, and it's clear that Congress has little interest in spending any more money on a bridge between Ketchikan and Gravina Island," Governor Palin added. "Much of the public's attitude toward Alaska bridges is based on inaccurate portrayals of the projects here. But we need to focus on what we can do, rather than fight over what has happened."

Maybe I've missed something, but it sure looks like she was fine with the bridge in principle, never had a problem with the earmarks, bristled at all the mockery, and only gave up on the project when it was clear that federal support wasn't forthcoming. Now, Charles Homans, who knows Alaska well, says Palin's anti-corruption instincts are fairly solid (she sold off the gubenatorial jet upon taking office, for one), and a casual Nexis search suggests that she's fiscally conservative (insofar as that term makes sense in a quasi-socialist state like Alaska), but this hardly looks like the "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington" moment everyone's making it out to be.

P.S. Here's a piece that Palin's special counsel, John Katz, wrote in March of this year for the Juneau Empire, assuring the Alaskan public that Palin was still very much in favor of earmarks, but sadly needed to scale back her requests somewhat (to "only" 31 earmarks this year"down from 54 last year) in response to "unwanted attention" from Congress and the press.

--Bradford Plumer

Posted: Friday, August 29, 2008 7:42 PM with 10 comment(s)


Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  4  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 04:49 pm
I was just listening to Jack Cafferty on CNN. He said, since McCain announced his choice for VP, he has received over 13,000 emails--and 90 percent of those emails complain about McCain's poor choice. Cafferty said it will be interesting in the next few days to listen to Republicans trying to defend this choice. Cafferty is truly disenchanted:

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/29/mccain-vp-pick-younger-less-experienced-than-obama/

Also, people googling for information on Sarah Palin and Dan Quayle are in the top 100 searches of the day.
sozobe
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 04:53 pm
@Debra Law,
Interesting.

Debra Law wrote:

Also, people googling for information on Sarah Palin and Dan Quayle are in the top 100 searches of the day.


Yeah, my site (the one I work for) has crashed! I think we were one of the best sites for Palin info and probably had more visitors than ever before. Bad time to crash, though. <sigh>
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 04:59 pm
@Debra Law,
From the Cafferty link... <SNORT>... The Eskimo vote is tied up now.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  3  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 05:04 pm
Sullivan has been entertaining today. He was horrified out of the gate, then learned more about her and was impressed by some things (she's smoked pot! she's against gay marriage but unusually gay-friendly in other ways, for a Republican), then later in the day started to learn more about various problems and is back to being aghast. A bit ago:

Andrew Sullivan wrote:
It gets better:

Quote:
" Stevens and Young, redux. She has distanced herself from the state’s two most popular politicians, but both appeared at Palin fundraisers during her 2006 gubernatorial bid.

" The environment. As governor, Palin vetoed wind power and clean coal projects, including a 50-megawatt wind arm on Fire Island and a clean coal facility in Healy that had been mired in a dispute between local and state governments.

" And, maybe, censorship. According to the Frontiersman newspaper, Wasilla’s library director Mary Ellen Emmons said that "Palin asked her outright if she could live with censorship of library books.” Palin later dismissed the conversation as a “rhetorical” exercise.


So one tenth of her campaign financing in 2002 was from oil company bosses, she's being investigated by her own legislature for a scandal where she appointed a sexual harasser, she vetoed wind and clean coal energy projects, and wanted to impose Christianist censorship on public libraries. I mean: did anyone even vet her?


His source:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12987.html

A couple more choice quotes from Andrew:

Quote:
It's useful to judge the veep picks as an insight into how the two presidential candidates make decisions. A reader sums it up:

Quote:
Looking at these two events, what do we see? Obama is cautious, conservative and highly deliberative in his approach. McCain is a risk-taker, indeed, even a bit rash.


In a world of Jihadist terror, resurgent great power politics, and proliferating WMDs, who are you more comfortable with? And how eager are you to roll the dice?


Quote:
This is a reckless act of egotism and politics. The more you think about it, and the more you consider how many charges he has leveled against Obama's alleged inexperience in a time of peril, the more outrageous it is that she he picks an unknown local politician he has only met once before to be a heartbeat away from the presidency.

Palin isn't the issue here. McCain's judgment is. It's completely off the wall. Is there something wrong with him?
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  4  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 05:09 pm
I thought Obama's pick of Biden was bad, but then McCain had to come along and top it.

What a terrible pick!

I can only conclude that McCain thought that he was choosing Michael Palin:

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/4/4c/Biggus.jpg

"Weweese Bwian!"
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 05:09 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:

... people googling for information on Sarah Palin and Dan Quayle are in the top 100 searches of the day.


NPR had a story this evening on the Wikepedia entry for Gov Palin. Google someone and one of the first entries is their bio in Wikepedia. It seems that this morning, someone spent a goodly anount of time re-writing the entry about her, accentuating the positives and diminishing the negatives. All done by a "newbie" contributor who has only posted on that topic only. NPR reported the story somewhat humorously, noting that this is not uncommon in entries about politicians or celebs. Wikepedia caught it and has, as I heard it, temporarily restricted some access to the site for the purposes of editing.
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 05:22 pm
Obama took a lot of hits during the primaries for his treatment of Hillary. This pick is likely to cause him to have to tread very softly to avoid dredging up those old accusations again.

Also will be interesting to see how this affect's the playing of the race card by either party. If one plays the race card against the other, the other will be able to retaliate with accusations of misogyny.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 05:25 pm
On MSNBC a few minutes ago... "...she eats moose burgers... She's a colorful character."

Christ! Are you kidding me???

Like this is the time for moose eating colorful characters. I'm sure Osama is quacking in his cave. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 05:34 pm
Uh, I think that should have have been quaking, not quacking, although he may be doing both. Very Happy

Cached Wiki page on Sarah http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:wPu4ia1Ld8EJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin+sarah+palin+wikipedia&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=1&amp;gl=us Still comparing the changes.
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 05:38 pm
@squinney,
If you want to compare the wikipedia article versions you can just click on the history tab for them and compare them edit by edit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sarah_Palin&action=history
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 05:39 pm
Cool. Another maverick...not afraid to fight the status quo. So far, so good. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080829/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_veepstakes;_ylt=Al5yoRXvs08QUW2blVZEjTth24cA

From another article: Gov. Palin, who is still nursing her son, tells PEOPLE she’s used to multi-tasking: “What I’ve had to do, though, is in the middle of the night, put down the Blackberries and pick up the breast pump. Do a couple of things different and still get it all done.”

Your average woman. I'm liking this.
 

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