Diest TKO
 
  1  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 02:46 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

TKO wrote:
When are you going to start contributing Kevin? Grow up. If you are going to post something like this, back it up or shut up. Your immaturity is unmatched on these forums.


Must be wry irony here.

How else to explain Diest criticizing anyone for immaturity?

I've came here and presented verifiable facts and made a honest effort to contribute. I've outlined exactly what McCain needs to do to win, and for all my predictions lately, I've been right on just about all of them. I predicted the direction of McCain's speech and the new strategy of his campaign with Palin to name the most significant prediction.

But if you want to play in the sandbox with Kevin, I'm not going to stop you. Just wipe your feet before coming back in the house.

You can grow up too.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 02:53 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
The O'Reilly interview is a great idea by Obama. Everyone knows where O'Reilly postures himself with politics. The playing field is uneven, and the viewer knows it; Obama can be hit as hard as he can, but O'Reilly doesn't have to defend anything.

Obama held his own very well. Consider the debate format for this year and it's similarity to the format of this interview. Obama delivered with poise while under fire. If Obama can handle O'Reilly's questions, nothing that McCain will be able to send his way will make a dent. If nothing else, it give Obama an opportunity to square off directly with republican ideas and practice delivering with strength.

T
K
Obama kept it cool.
0 Replies
 
Woiyo9
 
  0  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 06:44 am
@Cycloptichorn,
"On the same day that McCann filed for divorce in April 2005, the governor's father called the state troopers to report allegations of wrongdoing. Complaints filed by McCann, Sarah Palin and their family resulted in more than 20 internal affairs investigations, said his attorney, Richard Payne.

He was found to have violated state policy for using a Taser on his 10-year-old son, killing a moose while using his wife's permit, drinking a beer before driving a state vehicle and having an open beer can in the vehicle.
Wooten acknowledged the moose and the Taser incidents but denied that he ever drank beer in a patrol vehicle. The initial investigation sustained the first two incidents but not the third, said John Cyr, the trooper's union representative, who listened in on The Post's interview. The colonel in charge of the troopers later sustained the allegation, and Wooten served a five-day suspension.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/09/05/ST2008090504111.html
parados
 
  2  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 08:54 am
@Woiyo9,
Based on the timing of when the allegations were reported and the story of the tasing of the 10 year old that everyone thought was cute until the divorce, I can only conclude that the family was being vindictive against the former son-in-law.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 09:15 am
http://elections.foxnews.com/files/2008/09/sarah_palin_graphic.jpg
DrewDad
 
  2  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 09:23 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Yet, as you can see by the description of the definition of minority, which I posted for you....I DO happen to be a minority.

Actually, by the definition you posted you are NOT a minority. There are more women than men in the US, and a higher percentage of women than men vote.

You may be delusional, be you are not a minority.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 09:23 am
@H2O MAN,
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has been subjected to an intense amount of media and public scrutiny since she was named as John McCain’s vice presidential pick one week ago. Many of the attacks have come in the form of unconfirmed reports on the Internet. Among them:

1) Palin “Joined a Secessionist Political Party”

The Charge: Unsubstantiated Internet reports insisted Palin was once a member of the Alaska Independence Party, which critics call a secessionist political movement and supporters say is dedicated to seeking greater state control over federal lands across Alaska.

The Facts: Palin has been a registered Republican since 1982. There is no record of her ever being a member of the AIP, or any party but the GOP. Palin’s husband has been a member of the AIP in the past, but since 2002 has been a registered independent.

(See: Party Official Says Palin Was Not a Member)

2) Palin Supported a “Nazi Sympathizer”

The Charge: “Palin was a supporter of Pat Buchanan, a right-winger or, as many Jews call him: a Nazi sympathizer,” Obama Florida spokesman Mark Bubriski was quoted as saying in a Miami Herald article.

The Facts: While mayor of Wasilla, Palin wore a Buchanan button during the sometimes presidential candidate’s 1999 visit. But Palin actually supported Steve Forbes in 2000, and served as a co-chair on his Alaska campaign.

In the weeks after the 1999 report of her wearing the Buchanan button, Palin said: “When presidential candidates visit our community, I am always happy to meet them. I’ll even put on their button when handed one as a polite gesture of respect. … The article may have left your readers with the perception that I am endorsing this candidate, as opposed to welcoming his visit to Wasilla.”

(See: Obama campaign advisor quote is from an e-mail sent to the Miami Herald )

3) Palin “Wants Creationism Taught in School”

The Charge: Palin opposes the teaching of evolution, and would mandate the teaching of creationism in the state’s public schools.

The Facts: Palin said during her 2006 gubernatorial campaign that she would not push the state Board of Education to add creation-based alternatives to the state’s required curriculum, or look for creationism advocates when she appointed board members. She has kept this pledge, according to the Associated Press.

Palin has spoken in favor of classroom discussions of creationism, in some cases. “I don’t think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn’t have to be part of the curriculum,” Palin told the Anchorage Daily News in a 2006 interview.

(See: ‘Creation science’ enters the race; Palin is only candidate to suggest it should be discussed in schools. By Tom Kizzia, Anchorage Daily News, 27 October 2006)

4) Palin “Was Nearly Recalled” While Mayor

The Charge: Palin was so controversial as mayor of Wasilla that she was almost recalled by a popular voter movement.

The Facts: The Wasilla City Council considered but never took up a recall motion after she fired a longtime police chief, who subsequently brought a lawsuit. A citizen’s group dropped their recall bid, and a judge ruled Palin had the authority to fire the chief.

(See: Foes Back Off Push to Recall Mayor)

5) Palin “Opposes Sex Education”

The Charge: Palin opponents say she supported the end of all sex education in public schools. In light of her daughter’s presumably unplanned teen pregnancy, this has been a particularly well discussed Internet topic.

The Facts: “The explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support,” Palin wrote in a 2006 questionnaire distributed among gubernatorial candidates. Palin favors abstinence-based sex education programs.

(See: McCain fought money on teen pregnancy programs, By Sharon Theimer, Associated Press, Sept. 2, 2008)

6) “This Picture Proves Palin is …”

The Charge: A slew of fake, Photoshopped or misdated photographs on the Internet purport to show Palin in any number of embarrassing or compromising poses. One photo claimed to show Palin standing poolside, wearing an American flag-themed bikini, toting a rifle with telescopic sight.

The Facts: The various photos are being discredited and shown to be fake on a number of Web sites. The original of the so-called bikini shot, probably the best-known of the pictures, was shown to have been taken of another woman, with Palin’s head Photoshopped above the body.

(See: Call to Arms)

7) Palin is the grandmother, and not the mother, of Trig Palin

The Charge: The most salacious rumor of all, this theory holds that Palin did not give birth to her son Trig in April, and was actually covering up for her daughter, Bristol.

The Facts:
There are a number of photographs showing an apparently pregnant Sarah Palin, as well as a number of published eyewitness accounts of her pregnancy. These include First Lady Laura Bush, who says she spoke with a pregnant Palin at a governor’s conference in February. An assignment manager for KTVA news in Anchorage, Cherie Shirey, has also been quoted saying: “We worked with Governor Palin many times in 2008. Our reporters worked her on location and in the studio and I worked with her myself. She was definitely pregnant. You could see it in her belly and her face. The whole idea that Sarah Palin wasn’t pregnant with Trig is completely, absolutely absurd.”

The McCain campaign, in an apparent effort to counteract the rumors, announced last weekend that Bristol Palin is five months pregnant, which indicated she would have become pregnant before Trig was born.
Diest TKO
 
  6  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 09:36 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:
5) Palin “Opposes Sex Education”

The Charge: Palin opponents say she supported the end of all sex education in public schools. In light of her daughter’s presumably unplanned teen pregnancy, this has been a particularly well discussed Internet topic.

The Facts: “The explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support,” Palin wrote in a 2006 questionnaire distributed among gubernatorial candidates. Palin favors abstinence-based sex education programs.

(See: McCain fought money on teen pregnancy programs, By Sharon Theimer, Associated Press, Sept. 2, 2008)

WTF is a "explicit" sex-ed program? One that gives details? What if we didn't teach "explicit" math. That would be like having a math class where students walk in, and the teach tells them...

"There is this thing called math. I can't go into the details, but I can tell you that you can use it to solve problems. Don't worry though, you won't have to solve any problems until your older and more mature. I am going to teach you numbers though. If you ever feel the strong urge to do math, just remember to do numbers instead."

It's all good until some curious kid finds a calculator and tries to divide by zero.

That's called opposing sexual education.
K
O
DrewDad
 
  2  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 09:48 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Why did Palin suffer their slings and arrows?

In large part because [the media is] hoplessly biased towards The Left....

This canard has been debunked again and again.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 09:48 am
@Diest TKO,
How do you teach "sex abstinence" without the detail? Some children still think kissing results in pregnancy.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  3  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 10:08 am
@DrewDad,
I guess you were unable to read or comprehend the excerpt I brought. (pats him on the head, walks away)
firefly
 
  1  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 10:36 am
@Lash,
Quote:

The New York Times
September 4, 2008, 8:41 pm
The Mirrored Ceiling
Judith Warner

It turns out there was something more nauseating than the nomination of Sarah Palin as John McCain’s running mate this past week. It was the tone of the acclaim that followed her acceptance speech.

“Drill, baby, drill,” clapped John Dickerson, marveling at Palin’s ability to speak and smile at the same time as an indication of her unexpected depths and unsuspected strengths. “It was clear Palin was having fun, and it’s hard to have fun if you’re scared or a lightweight,” he wrote in Slate.
The Politico praised her charm and polish as antidotes to her lack of foreign policy experience: “Palin’s poised and flawless performance evoked roars of applause from delegates who earlier this week might have worried that the surprise pick and newcomer to the national stage may not be up to the job.”
“She had a great night. I thought she had a very skillfully written, and very skillfully delivered speech,” Joe Biden said, shades of “articulate and bright and clean” threatening a reappearance.

Thus began the official public launch of our country’s now most-prominent female politician. The condescension " damning with faint praise " was reminiscent of the more overt misogyny of Samuel Johnson.
“A woman’s preaching is like a dog’s walking on his hinder legs,” the wit once observed. “It is not done well; but you are surprized to find it done at all.”
Palin sounded, at times, like she was speaking a foreign language as she gave voice to the beautifully crafted words that had been prepared for her on Wednesday night.
But that wasn’t held against her. Thanks to the level of general esteem that greeted her ascent to the podium, it seems we’ve all got to celebrate the fact that America’s Hottest Governor (Princess of the Fur Rendezvous 1983, Miss Wasilla 1984) could speak at all.

Could there be a more thoroughgoing humiliation for America’s women?
You are not, I think, supposed now to say this. Just as, I am sure, you are certainly not supposed to feel that having Sarah Palin put forth as the Republicans’ first female vice presidential candidate is just about as respectful a gesture toward women as was John McCain’s suggestion, last month, that his wife participate in a topless beauty contest.

Such thoughts, we are told, are sexist. And elitist. After all, via Palin, we now hear without cease, the People are speaking. The “real” “authentic,” small-town “Everyday People,” of Hockey Moms and Blue Collar Dads whom even Rudolph Giuliani now invokes as an antidote to the cosmopolite Obamas and their backers in the liberal media. (Remind me please, once again, what was the name of the small town where Rudy grew up?)

Why does this woman " who to some of us seems as fake as they can come, with her delicate infant son hauled out night after night under the klieg lights and her pregnant teenage daughter shamelessly instrumentalized for political purposes " deserve, to a unique extent among political women, to rank as so “real”?

Because the Republicans, very clearly, believe that real people are idiots. This disdain for their smarts shows up in the whole way they’ve cast this race now, turning a contest over economic and foreign policy into a culture war of the Real vs. the Elites. It’s a smoke and mirrors game aimed at diverting attention from the fact that the party’s tax policies have helped create an elite that’s more distant from “the people” than ever before. And from the fact that the party’s dogged allegiance to up-by-your-bootstraps individualism " an individualism exemplified by Palin, the frontierswoman who somehow has managed to “balance” five children and her political career with no need for support " is leading to a culture-wide crack-up.

Real people, the kind of people who will like and identify with Palin, they clearly believe, are smart, but not too smart, and don’t talk too well, dropping their “g”s, for example, and putting tough concepts like “vice president” in quotation marks.
“As for that ‘V.P.’ talk all the time … I tell ya, I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me, What is it exactly that the ‘VP’ does every day?” Palin asked host Lawrence Kudlow on CNBC sometime before her nomination. “I’m used to bein’ very productive and workin’ real hard in an administration and we want to make sure that that ‘V.P.’ slot would be a fruitful type of position.”

And, I think, they find her acceptably “real,” because Palin’s not intimidating, and makes it clear that she’s subordinate to a great man.
That’s the worst thing a woman can be in this world, isn’t it? Intimidating, which appears to be synonymous with competent. It’s the kiss of death, personally and politically.

But shouldn’t a woman who is prepared to be commander in chief be intimidating? Because of the intelligence, experience, talent and drive that got her there? If she isn’t, at least on some level, off-putting, if her presence inspires national commentary on breast-pumping and babysitting rather than health care reform and social security, then something is seriously wrong. If she doesn’t elicit at least some degree of awe, then something is missing.
One of the worst poisons of the American political climate right now, the thing that time and again in recent years has led us to disaster, is the need people feel for leaders they can “relate” to. This need isn’t limited to women; it brought us after all, two terms of George W. Bush. And it isn’t new; Americans have always needed to feel that their leaders were, on some level, people like them.

But in the past, it was possible to fill that need through empathetic connection. Few Depression-era voters could “relate” to Franklin Roosevelt’s patrician background, notes historian Doris Kearns Goodwin. “It was his ability to connect to them that made them feel they could connect to him,” she told me in a phone interview.
The age of television, Goodwin believes, has made the demand for connection more immediate and intense. But never before George W. Bush did it quite reach the beer-drinking level of familiarity. “Now it’s all about being able to see your life story in the candidate, rather than the candidate, with empathy, being able to relate to you.”

There’s a fine line between likability and demagoguery. Both thrive upon manipulation and least-common-denominator politics. These days, I fear, this need for direct mirroring " and thus this susceptibility to all sorts of low-level tripe " is particularly acute among women, who are perhaps reaching historic lows in their comfort levels with themselves and their choices.
Just look at how quickly the reaction to Palin devolved into what The Times this week called the “Mommy Wars: Special Campaign Edition.” Much of the talk about Palin (like the emoting about Hillary Clinton before her) ultimately came down to this: is she like me or not like me? If she’s not like me, can I like her? And what kind of child care does she have?

“This election is not about issues,” Rick Davis, John McCain’s campaign manager said this week. “This election is about a composite view of what people take away from these candidates.” That’s a scary thought. For the takeaway is so often base, a reflection more of people’s fears and insecurities than of our hopes and dreams.

We’re not likely to get a worthy female president anytime soon.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 12:39 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

I guess you were unable to read or comprehend the excerpt I brought. (pats him on the head, walks away)

Would you care to respond to what I posted, or are you just giving up?

Here's a link, in case you missed it: http://able2know.org/topic/121594-40#post-3389631

To summarize, though:

1. Your post based minority status on political participation.
2. My post shows that more women vote than men.

The only conclusion is that women are not a minority.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  3  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 02:05 pm
@DrewDad,
to be fair, i think i understand what lash is getting at.

while women may be a physical majority (the popular vote), men, with fewer physical numbers (the electoral college) have generally wielded more influence in american business and politics.

at least i think that's what she's saying.

over the span of my work career, i've reported to both men and women. of the two best bosses i've had, one was male and one was female. i've had terrible bosses in both categories. but i don't feel like it had anything to do with gender.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 02:10 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
to be fair, i think i understand what lash is getting at.

while women may be a physical majority (the popular vote), men, with fewer physical numbers (the electoral college) have generally wielded more influence in american business and politics.

I think I understand what she's getting at, too. "Glass ceiling" is a term coined for how women are under-represented at the highest levels of power.

But I disagree that they are under-represented because they are a minority.

Edit: I've started a separate thread for the gender issue: http://able2know.org/topic/122032-1
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 02:14 pm
@DrewDad,
For those who are too blind to see that women have been discriminated against for most of human life in the US, they are hopeless idiots.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 02:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
women had and largely accepted roles in life that we moderns find unacceptable....this however does not mean that they were discriminated against even though most moderns make the claim. This speaks to the moderns being unable to see though any eyes but their own, they can not open their minds to other possible views and interpretations. Modern close mindedness is not attractive, nor is it helpful in seeing history.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 02:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I'm sorry, did I claim that women have not been discriminated against?
cicerone imposter
 
  4  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 02:30 pm
@DrewDad,
No, DrewDad, my post was in support of your position. Sorry, if you misunderstood.

Women pay still isn't par with men's - even with the same title and positions.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Sat 6 Sep, 2008 02:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

No, DrewDad, my post was in support of your position. Sorry, if you misunderstood.

Women pay still isn't par with men's - even with the same title and positions.


Maybe that will change with Palin in The White House Cool
 

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