sozobe
 
  3  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 06:53 am
@FreeDuck,
I agree.

One other thing I thought of recently... we're hearing a lot about that, how McCain stepped on Obama's convention speech et al, and it's true. But a record-setting number of people SAW that speech, first-hand. The stepping-on really counts in terms of filters -- people finding out about it who didn't see it themselves. And while there wasn't a lot of positive coverage of the speech/ convention once the Palin choice came out, what coverage I did see was positive -- and I don't think there was much negative coverage.

Often there is the post-speech dissections, trying to point out contradictions or fudges or he was for it before he was against it or whatever. That didn't happen either.

So you have some 40 million people who saw Obama's speech live -- and then haven't had their impressions of Obama's speech messed with. THAT might turn out to be a real positive. It was a speech that was really well received by a lot of people. (As far as I can tell, the least-positive responses are from major Obama supporters, who liked it fine but had seen much of it before. It seemed to go over really well with undecideds and those who were less familiar with him. And every media report I saw about it was positive.)
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 06:56 am
her "executive experience" is that of a town mayor and a one third stint as a governor of a state that has a popultion smaller than Delaware (Joes state).
These senseless comparisons fail to address trhe issue that shes a heartbeat away from the presidency. This seems to deflate the Obama "rookie" issue by some brain freeze on McCains behalf.
"If the DEms can have a rookie on the ticket, so can we"

Shes not too eloquent from whaty Ive heard of her(which was probably filtered by the notoriously left ing CBC).


Lets just allow the campaign to play out and see who makes the best issues. The personal attack is a craft so eloquently honed by GOP "Operachiks".


I know Ill be accused of cynicism , but MCains campaign use of the Gustav Hurricane has not played too well.His entire plan was to show that the GOP was not the party of "ass sittin while Rome burns" that it was during Katrina . He wanted to be seen as a decisive candidate who spurred the party into mobilization for a natural disaster.Alas, If only nature had complied. It seems that the oil industry was already prepared for the worst because they had super reinforced the float forms in the Gulf and they seemed to have ridden the storm well (and that the storm was only a moderate one did help). HOWEVER, the levees havent been completed on time or have they been supereinforced for a cat-3 event. Johny, instead of looking presidential, looked more like some aluminum siding salesman who blows into town after some wind storm .

Please avert your eyes from the fact that USCOE and Homeland Security havent been up to the task s that theyve taken so m uch credit for.

FreeDuck
 
  2  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 07:03 am
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

So you have some 40 million people who saw Obama's speech live -- and then haven't had their impressions of Obama's speech messed with. THAT might turn out to be a real positive. It was a speech that was really well received by a lot of people. (As far as I can tell, the least-positive responses are from major Obama supporters, who liked it fine but had seen much of it before. It seemed to go over really well with undecideds and those who were less familiar with him. And every media report I saw about it was positive.)


Good point. I saw this yesterday on Gallup's site -- it's encouraging.
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 07:11 am
@sozobe,
NYT indicates that the vetting team arrived in Alaska on Thursday -- the day before the announcement.

Quote:
Aides to Mr. McCain said they had a team on the ground in Alaska now to look more thoroughly into Ms. Palin’s background. A Republican with ties to the campaign said the team assigned to vet Ms. Palin in Alaska had not arrived there until Thursday, a day before Mr. McCain stunned the political world with his vice-presidential choice. The campaign was still calling Republican operatives as late as Sunday night asking them to go to Alaska to deal with the unexpected candidacy of Ms. Palin.


more

Quote:
At the least, Republicans close to the campaign said it was increasingly apparent that Ms. Palin had been selected as Mr. McCain’s running mate with more haste than McCain advisers initially described.

Up until midweek last week, some 48 to 72 hours before Mr. McCain introduced Ms. Palin at a Friday rally in Dayton, Ohio, Mr. McCain was still holding out the hope that he could choose a good friend, Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, a Republican close to the campaign said. Mr. McCain had also been interested in another favorite, former Gov. Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania.


and

Quote:
Advisers to Mr. Pawlenty and another of the finalists on Mr. McCain’s list described an intensive vetting process for those candidates that lasted one to two months.

“They didn’t seriously consider her until four or five days from the time she was picked, before she was asked, maybe the Thursday or Friday before,” said a Republican close to the campaign. “This was really kind of rushed at the end, because John didn’t get what he wanted. He wanted to do Joe or Ridge.”


and

Quote:
Representative Gail Phillips, a Republican and former speaker of the State House, said the widespread surprise in Alaska when Ms. Palin was named to the ticket made her wonder how intensively the McCain campaign had vetted her.

“I started calling around and asking, and I have not been able to find one person that was called,” Ms. Phillips said. “I called 30 to 40 people, political leaders, business leaders, community leaders. Not one of them had heard. Alaska is a very small community, we know people all over, but I haven’t found anybody who was asked anything.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html
0 Replies
 
Woiyo9
 
  1  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 07:12 am
@farmerman,
Still more executive experience than Obama who spent about 10 minutes in the Senate before he abandoned his job to run for this office.
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 07:14 am
@FreeDuck,
It is!

http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/080830ObamaSpeech1_h6g4f4.gif
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 07:42 am
@Woiyo9,
Woiyo9 wrote:

Still more executive experience than Obama who spent about 10 minutes in the Senate before he abandoned his job to run for this office.


And apparently more executive experience than the top of the GOP ticket. Is she more qualified than McCain then?
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  4  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 08:47 am
I'm going to stick with my initial reaction to the Palin pick.

I don't think McCain really wants to win. I'm now thinking that maybe this is a GOP "give me" to McCain. They are letting him be the nominee, choosing Palin as VP as an introduction of her to the country, but know already that they (GOP) will not win this fall due to the screw ups of the past 8 years and general attitude of the country about how things are going.

They can be the good guys that allowed McCain to run, set Palin up for something in the future, not expend a lot of energy on conventions and campaigning and lose. They also know that whoever wins will have a Dem congress for a couple of years. So, what could they accomplish anyway?

So, they sit out four years, regroup and re-image themselves and hit again strong in 2012.

Of course, they could never admit that but it seems obvious from decisions to this point in the election campaign. They are too cunning for me to think this is a real effort to win.

edit: meant to include that Palin is a scapegoat in that she can be sacrificed by the GOP since she is an unknown. To have selected Pawlenty, Ridge, Lieberman etc who have long political careers that would be torn to shreds... They were spared. Perhaps they are being saved for later?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 08:52 am
I'm going to be writing a lot about this today. But suffice it to say, to begin, that Palin was a colossal mistake on the part of the Republicans and McCain. We're just beginning to find out her problems. She wasn't vetted. She's a political neophyte. She has no foreign policy experience. And she's an unknown to most Americans. Her numbers are worse with women then men. She holds very right-wing positions on many social issues. She has flip-flopped on many economic issues.

Intrade, as of today, started taking bets on whether or not she would be dropped from the ticket. Think about that for a second. There was enough interest in placing bets on McCain replacing her. That ought to tell you something about the national mood on Gov. Palin.

Cycloptichorn
maporsche
 
  2  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 08:52 am
@squinney,
I really think that McCain WANTS to win, but an objective look at the environment in this election pretty much guarentees that a republican cannot win. McCain was the best chance the republicans have at beating Obama but it was never a likely outcome. McCain will fare better than Romney, Gulianni, or Huckabee would have (by far), however.

I think that a lot of the decisions we're seeing have more to do with 2012 than 2008.
sozobe
 
  2  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 08:54 am
@squinney,
I dunno... I tend to think that Republican cunning is overrated. I think Gore (and especially Lieberman) and Kerry/ Edwards had significant problems, and they each managed to come awfully close anyway.

Might be that the Republicans are just not that smart Laughing and this year we finally have someone who's kick-ass.

More Palin weirdnesses:

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/09/curiouser-and-c.html
JPB
 
  2  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 08:59 am
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

I dunno... I tend to think that Republican cunning is overrated. I think Gore (and especially Lieberman) and Kerry/ Edwards had significant problems, and they each managed to come awfully close anyway.


I think this was more a result of voting against GWB by moderates and independents who might have otherwise voted for a third party candidate (I can attest to two such votes in this household).
sozobe
 
  3  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 09:01 am
@JPB,
More than... what? The skills of Gore or Kerry?

My main point is that while Gore and Kerry's campaigns had significant problems, the "cunning" Republicans still came within inches of losing.

Let me expand:

I think that the Republicans and the Democrats each have smarter and dumber aspects. But I think that there is this whole mystique that's been built up around the Rovian types that is not really warranted. They did some scurrilous things and some of them worked, for sure. But this level of "they planned it all out..." No, I don't think so. I think that McCain really wants to win, and is really trying hard (he has sure been campaigning hard!), and that he just made a stupid pick that will decrease his chances of winning further than they already were.

I think it's stupidity, in this case, not cunning.
JPB
 
  1  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 09:14 am
@sozobe,
More than wanting either Gore or Kerry in the White House. More of an "anyone except GWB" but that's past history.

I too think McCain wants to win. He certainly doesn't want to wait around for four years. Now, whether or not the Party thinks that any Republican has a snowball's chance in hell of winning this election is another question altogether. I think there are some deep,deep divisions in the Republican party. I don't think the greater portion of the Party thinks McCain is the best man for the job and I think they nominated him because he had the best potential of any of the Republican candidates to beat either Obama or Hillary. Best potential doesn't equate to stand by your man when he's perceived as much too moderate on social issues to the conservatives and much too conservative on foreign policy to the moderates. The Party itself is splintering into factions which doesn't bode well for them putting any one face forward.

I think they're trying to be cunning to make themselves appeal to their own constituency - I just don't think they have it in them right now.
0 Replies
 
Woiyo9
 
  2  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 09:20 am
@Cycloptichorn,
You all are SCARED TO DEATH about this woman. Why?

Look at how the liberal Media is reacting to her.

NY TIMES - 3 Front Page Stories on Palin

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02mother.html?hp=&pagewanted=print

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02assess.html?hp=&pagewanted=print

Philadelphia Scribe predicts RACE WARS !!!

If McCain wins, look for a full-fledged race and class war, fueled by a deflated and depressed country, soaring crime, homelessness - and hopelessness!

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/opinion/20080902_Fatimah_Ali__We_need_Obama__not_4_more_years_of_George_Bush.html

Baltimore Scribe is INSULTED!!!

He seems to think that my girlfriends and I are so disappointed that an utterly qualified woman is not going to be president that we will jump at the chance to vote for an utterly unqualified woman for vice president.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/bal-te.reimer01sep01,0,3951691.column

SALLY QUINN is SHOCKED!!!!

My first reaction was shock. Then anger. John McCain chose a running mate simply because she is a woman and one who appealed to the Republican's conservative evangelical base. Now, with news that Palin's 17-year-old unmarried daughter is pregnant, McCain's pick may not even find support among "family values" voters.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/sally_quinn/2008/08/sarah_polin.html

Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 09:30 am
@Woiyo9,
Woiyo. I can tell you with no exaggeration, that we are not afraid of Palin. She was a mistake on McCain's part, and one which will sink his already floundering ship.

In EVERY POLL since her nomination was announced, Obama has increased his lead. You ought to be afraid, man.

Cycloptichorn
nicole415
 
  1  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 09:32 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Afraid of Palin? A lot of people are scared to death that she might actually be elected. That is scary.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 09:37 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Right, and if I were the betting type I'd be all over the odds that she doesn't make it to November.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 10:23 am
@JPB,
Some of them certainly seem to be all over that possibility as we speak. This won't help things for Palin either.

Quote:
09.02.08 -- 5:51AM // link | recommend (40)
Palin Goes to War with Investigation

In one of the stories yesterday about Palin's hiring of a lawyer -- which we now find out she's having the state of Alaska pay for -- I noted that her new counsel, Thomas Van Flein, asked the lead investigator in the case to turn over all witness statements and documents produced so far in the probe. That struck me not as a good-faith request but rather an effort to get into a fight over process and thus gum up the investigation until after the election.

And sure enough, today's Anchorage Daily News provides plenty of evidence that that is what's happening in spades. Though to this point Palin has said she would cooperate fully with the investigation, Van Flein is now challenging the standing of the entire inquiry. He claims that any investigation should be handled not by the legislature but by the state Personnel Board which, conveniently, is made up of the governor's appointees.

Van Flein is also charging that the state senator charged with overseeing the investigation is on a partisan witch-hunt. "Our concern is that Hollis French turns into Ken Starr and uses public money to pursue a political vendetta rather than truly pursue an honest inquiry into an alleged ethics issue," Van Flein told the ADN. To which French rather persuasively responded that the charge of partisanship rang at least a little hollow since the investigation was instigated and authorized by a committee dominated by Republicans (though it's only fair to note that Palin is not beloved by all Republicans in the state).

And finally that deposition that the investigator is trying to arrange with Gov. Palin? Seems she may be too busy running for vice president to make time for that. From the ADN ...

Branchflower [the lead investigator] hasn't been able to set up an interview with Palin. French said the state will fly Branchflower to wherever Palin is on the campaign trail if needed.

"Clearly the governor's new political role will make it more challenging for her to make time for this investigation," French wrote. But Palin needs to be interviewed sometime in September, he said.

Van Flein said the investigation is "bad timing" in the middle of a presidential campaign. He said he couldn't guarantee her availability this month.

If witnesses aren't available, French wrote, he'll ask the Senate Judiciary Committee, which he chairs, to issue subpoenas.

Buckle up.

--Josh Marshall


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/212342.php

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  4  
Tue 2 Sep, 2008 10:29 am
@Woiyo9,
Woiyo9 wrote:
You all are SCARED TO DEATH about this woman. Why?

Define "scared to death."

1. I'm still baffled as to why McCain chose her as his running mate.
2. I have strong concerns about her rabid social conservatism. True Believers do scare me. Give me a cynical politician any day....
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » McCain's VP:
  3. » Page 20
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.12 seconds on 11/24/2024 at 05:43:59