joefromchicago
 
  2  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:11 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

True. I think this will be damaging to McCain in a variety of ways, however -

Quote:
Now today comes the news that Palin's 17-year-old daughter, Bristol, is pregnant. In the news release, the McCain campaign made sure to state that:

Bristol Palin made the decision on her own to keep the baby, McCain aides said.

While it's obvious why they made this statement to assure the public that Bristol was not coerced into keeping the baby (after all, she does have a parent who is a staunch opponent of the right to choose and is currently on the Republican presidential ticket), as my significant other pointed out, there's some serious hypocrisy at play here. I mean, John McCain and Sarah Palin don't believe women have a right to choose. It's absolutely absurd for the campaign to emphasize the fact that Bristol "made this decision," and then push for policies that take away that choice.


They certainly will have a hard time pushing abstinence-only sex ed in the wake of this.

I don't disagree that there's an inconsistency here, but that's an extremely nuanced position for the general electorate to understand. Most people have already made up their minds on the abortion issue (and most, btw, are in favor of it), so it's unlikely that Palin's inherent hypocrisy here is going to sway anybody one way or the other.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:17 pm
@joefromchicago,
I agree that it's not going to sway anyone; but it is another instance of the hypocrisy and failure of their positions.

Definitely not a positive, lol

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:24 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I think the news of her daughter's pregnancy will damage Palin's halo among those social conservatives and evangelicals she was supposed to be energizing and attracting.

So the daughter will not have an abortion, she will keep the baby and marry the father. How nice. I wonder if Sarah Palin will be holding the shotgun at the wedding.

This is a 17 year old child who was not practicing abstinence or birth control. Does that reflect on Palin's parenting abilities? Her values? What example of family life is she presenting to the country?

The daughter is a minor. How old is the father of this child? Should the father of this unborn child be criminally charged for having sex with a minor?

On top of all the other obvious issues with Palin's selection, the latest news about her daughter's pregnancy will raise stll more questions about McCain's judgment in picking such a problematic running mate.

If any more damaging stuff about Palin comes out, or if her popularity with the Christian right fades, I wouldn't be suprised if McCain dumped her from the ticket. She would be the one to appear to bow out--possibly due to her family commitments, her daughter and new grandchild, as well as her own infant, will require her attention, etc.

sozobe
 
  1  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:38 pm
@firefly,
I saw a very short part of Frank Luntz's focus group re: Palin yesterday on TV and it looked interesting -- just tracked down this account:

Joe Klein wrote:
Another week, another Frank Luntz/AARP focus group of undecided voters--this one in Minneapolis and with some bad news for John McCain: they don't like the choice of Sarah Palin for vice president. Only one person said Palin made him more likely to vote for McCain; about half the 25-member group raised their hands when asked if Palin made them less likely to vote for McCain. They had a negative impression of Palin by a 2-1 margin...a fact that was reinforced when they were given hand-dials and asked to react to Palin's speech at her first appearance with McCain on Friday---the dials remained totally neutral as Palin went through her heart-warming(?) biography, and only blipped upwards when she said she opposed the Bridge to Nowhere--which wasn't quite the truth, as we now know.

Then there was this, from a woman named Teresa, who went to the Democratic Convention as a Hillary delegate and is leaning toward voting for McCain--obviously the target audience for the Palin pick: "His age didn't really bother me until he picked Palin. What if he dies in office and leaves us with her as President? Also she leans toward the rigid right, and I always thought he was a moderate...You know, I change my mind almost every day, but right now I"m wondering where the John McCain I really liked in 2000 went, what happened to the moderate? This John McCain has the look of someone who is being manipulated--probably by Karl Rove."

Teresa still wasn't willing to vote for Obama, whom she considers too inexperienced, but she was clearly wavering. Afterwards Luntz, good Republican that he is, made the case that Palin could win all these people back with a good convention speech, but that seemed far-fetched to me. They really saw this pick as a gimmick--and one that reflected badly on John McCain's judgment.


http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/08/focusedthe_sequel.html
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  4  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:38 pm
@firefly,
You can be practicing safe sex and get pregnant. That said...I don't know whether or not she was.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:42 pm
@Lash,
I would like to know, what kind of mother would subject her daughter to this? She had to have known that the media scrutiny would be intense. Yet they went ahead with it anyways. Who would do that to their child?

Arrogance and hubris, in spades, on the part of both McCain and Palin.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:45 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
But, I do believe that this will be at least as big a problem for McCain and Palin -

Quote:
Palin Was a Director of Embattled Sen. Stevens's 527 Group

By Matthew Mosk
ST. PAUL -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin began building clout in her state's political circles in part by serving as a director of an independent political group organized by the now embattled Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens.

Palin's name is listed on 2003 incorporation papers of the "Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service, Inc.," a 527 group that could raise unlimited funds from corporate donors. The group was designed to serve as a political boot camp for Republican women in the state. She served as one of three directors until June 2005, when her name was replaced on state filings.

Palin's relationship with Alaska's senior senator may be one of the more complicated aspects of her new position as Sen. John McCain's running mate; Stevens was indicted in July 2008 on seven counts of corruption.

Palin, an anti-corruption crusader in Alaska, had called on Stevens to be open about the issues behind the investigation. But she also held a joint news conference with him in July, before he was indicted, to make clear she had not abandoned him politically.

Stevens had been helpful to Palin during her run for governor, swooping in with a last moment endorsement. And the two filmed a campaign commercial together to highlight Stevens's endorsement of Palin during the 2006 race.

Shortly after Palin was announced as McCain's vice presidential pick, the ad was removed from her gubernatorial campaign web site. It remains available on YouTube.

A federal grand jury in Washington, D.C., has accused Stevens of concealing on financial disclosure statements lucrative gifts from the now-defunct oil company Veco and its top executives. At one point, Veco employees and contractors jacked up the senator's mountainside house on stilts and added a new first floor, with two bedrooms and a bathroom, the indictment says.

Stevens became the first sitting U.S. senator to face criminal charges in 15 years. He has adamantly denied the allegations.

At the time Stevens revealed the existence of the 527 group -- a type of independent political corporation named for its the section of the tax code -- ethics experts questioned whether it was appropriate.

The Capitol Hill newspaper Roll Call reported that several experts called the group an example of the fine legal line between a legal effort to conduct political activity and then-new prohibitions against raising unlimited soft-money.

Board members of Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service were legally allowed to raise as much money as they wanted from corporations or unions or unlimited donations from individuals -- all of which would have been illegal for Stevens to do himself.

At the time of the 2004 Roll Call report, Stevens's involvement was limited to some conversations with the group's board.

"He has just agreed that we can use his name," Gloria Shriver, the founder of the group and wife of Alaska Republican Party Chairman Randy Ruedrich, told the newspaper. "He did say that we could use [his name] and wished us the very best."

During her interview, Shriver left open the option that Stevens might help with some fundraising, the newspaper reported.

There is no record in IRS filings as to how much the group eventually raised.

A Palin spokeswoman did not provide a response to questions about the 527 this morning.


Wuh oh - she's tied to Ted Stevens?

It's becoming increasingly clear that McCain did NO vetting of Palin before picking her. This will be used quite effectively to destroy his claim to judgment in governance; he couldn't even be bothered to do basic research on such an important pick?

She may have excited the mouth-breathers in the Republican party, but she's flopping with everyone else.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:57 pm
Why does the press even report stupidity this grandiose?

Quote:
McCain's wife Cindy McCain said on ABC's "This Week" program that Palin had knowledge about Russia because her state is the closest U.S. state to Russia.

"Remember, Alaska is the closest part of our continent to Russia. So it's not as if she doesn't understand what's at stake here," she said.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:58 pm
@dlowan,
hey wabbit!

it's probably taken up just enough to raise doubts about mccain's foresight and judgement.

some will say something like, " i don't care. obama must be defeated no matter what it takes" others are probably seething now that it's coming out that the daughter may not have been pregnant and unmarried then, but she is now. and mccain new about it upfront. some that have that pov will also likely be looking at palin as a failure as a "values" mom.

hard to saywhat the net effect will be on the election, really. looking back at 2004, it's still flabergasting to me that bush pulled a second term. Rolling Eyes

21st century american politics has been, and still is, a wild card it would seem.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  2  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:59 pm
@JTT,
Shocked

If it's true, it makes me shudder while I chuckle...
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 01:00 pm
@Rockhead,
thank you!!!

appearing nightly in the coconut room. 2 shows, no cover! Laughing
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 01:04 pm
@Rockhead,
it has been widely reported, just as it has been widely reported that Mrs McCain had a huge influence in Palin being the pick......and for the same reason I had a huge problem with Michele Obama running her mouth in public I have a huge problem with this. Also because is was McCain who agreed with Obama that wives should be off limits. If wives are going to speak their minds in public and help run the administration then damn straight they need to be judged for fitness now. This is yet another instance of McCain being dishonest, a hypocrite and a person with poor judgment.

Is that a laughing matter??
old europe
 
  3  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 01:07 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
You can be practicing safe sex and get pregnant.


Practising abstinence-only and getting preggers would definitely be more difficult, though...

Isn't the religious right opposed to safe sex anyways?
Rockhead
 
  1  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 01:11 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawk, I laugh at a lot of things I doubt you would find funny...

You say it in public, it sticks, those are the rules of life.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 01:16 pm
@old europe,
Yes, but they all DID it. lmao

Is Palin opposed to sex education, as well?
maporsche
 
  3  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 01:16 pm
@old europe,
old europe wrote:

Lash wrote:
You can be practicing safe sex and get pregnant.


Practising abstinence-only and getting preggers would definitely be more difficult, though...

Isn't the religious right opposed to safe sex anyways?


She was rebutting the statement that Bristol wasn't using birth control......
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 01:17 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

You can be practicing safe sex and get pregnant. That said...I don't know whether or not she was.


but the safe sex isn't really the big deal. that the girl was having underage and pre-marital sex is what makes this a not so great thing for mcpalin.

the people that will be uptight about this would still be upset to learn that an underage and unmarried girl was having any kind of sex, whether it was bareback or encased in a full -body diaphragm.


0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 01:18 pm
@maporsche,
Yeah. Maporshe is correct. Firefly said this:

This is a 17 year old child who was not practicing abstinence or birth control. Does that reflect on Palin's parenting abilities? Her values? What example of family life is she presenting to the country?


old europe
 
  2  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 01:19 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Yes, but they all DID it. lmao


Cosa?

Lash wrote:

Is Palin opposed to sex education, as well?


I don't know. Do you?
Lash
 
  3  
Mon 1 Sep, 2008 01:21 pm
@old europe,
I just saw. Yes. Surprisingly, so is McCain.

Disgusting. ...and stupid.
 

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