Oneness vs. Trinity

The only begotten son of God was Jesus who was full of the holy spirit according to the Christian scriptures.

Jesus said what he said in John 14:8-10

That is exactly what I’m saying. I think the very idea is a dangerous deception.

Think exactly, literally ,what those two words mean when put together.
It destroys any real value or meaning in the word 'love'.

If you embrace that contradiction as your highest value it will seduce you into a mindset that will frustrate your efforts to know God’s love and recognize it in yourself.

Think about the destruction of a mind that tries to actually live that idea. Imagine having to unconditionally love a spouse who abuses you physically and/or psychologically every day. Do you really think God would expect that? Do you expect God to unconditionally love and accept such a person into his kingdom for eternity?
You know that he will not. So why would God expect that of us.

Yes, Christ said to love others as you love yourself.
I can’t even love myself unconditionally, nor should I.
I love God with all my heart, mind and soul because I see him as worthy of it. We also, should be worthy of love.

I’m not disagreeing with you Leadfoot.

Ok….so when it comes to the Christian scriptures, would you say that “conditional love” is based upon keeping Gods’s commandments perfectly?

i.e.if you keep them perfectly then you are loved by God…..if you don’t keep them perfectly then you are not loved by God.

There is only perfection or imperfection when it comes to keeping God’s commands.You can’t be nearly perfect….

The Christian scriptures state that imperfection cannot enter Gods presence.

Oh hell no.
That was the deal the Israelites asked God for, that was never God's desire.

I think The big reason God sent his only begotten Son to us was to show us explicitly how doomed that arrangement was.

My favorite verse in the Bible is when Christ told us plainly:



He also said 'Be ye perfect, even as your Heavenly Father is perfect.'

He wasn’t asking the impossible. To the extent you follow those two commandments, you are perfect in God's eyes.
Once I understood that love is not unconditional, that didn’t seem so hard to do.

Do you agree that only perfection can enter God’s presence?

If perfection is related to keeping the Christian God’s rules perfectly, I am interested to know what your views are on how anyone can enter God’s presence.

John 14: 10; "The WORDS that I have spoken to you," said Jesus, "Do not come from me. The Father, who remains in me does His own work, etc". Of course the man Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit, so was Stephen, who Saul watched as he was stoned to death.

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; I will raise them up a Prophet from among their own people, like unto thee, and will put ‘MY WORDS’ in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto ‘MY WORDS’ which he shall speak in ‘MY NAME’, I will surely Punish.

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when, concerning the man Jesus, he says in, Acts 3: 22-23; For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people. You are to obey everything that he tells you to do. Anyone who does not obey that prophet shall be separated from God's people and destroyed.’

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had promised Moses that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

Jesus spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by the Lord God our savior.

It was on the day of his baptism that the spirit of our Lord God and saviour descended upon him in the form of a dove as the heavenly voice was heard to say. “You are my son, ‘THIS DAY’ I have begotten thee.”

In Luke 3: 22; Those who would have you believe that Jesus was a god who became a man, changed the original verse, from “Thou art my Son. This day I have begotten thee.” to; “Thou art my beloved son in who I am well pleased.”

While in Luke 3: 22; (In place of “Thou art my beloved son in who I am well pleased.”) The following authorities of the second, third, and fourth centuries read, “This day I have begotten thee,” vouched for by Codex D, and the most ancient copies of the old latin (a, b. c. ff.I), by Justin Martyr (AD 140), Clemens Alex, (AD. 190), Methodius (AD. 290), among the Greeks. And among the Latins, Lactaitius (AD 300), Hilary (AD) Juvencus (AD. 330), Faustus (AD. 400) and Augustine. All these oldest manuscripts were changed completely. They now read, “This is my son in whom I am well pleased.” Whereas the original variant was, “Thou art my Son. This day I have begotten thee.”

Hebrews 5:7; In his life on earth Jesus made his prayers and requests with loud cries and tears to God, who could save him from death. Because he was humble and devoted, God heard him. But even though he was “A Son”, (See Psalms 82: 6.) he learnt through his sufferings to be obedient. When he was made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey him, and God declared him to be high priest, in the priestly order of Melchizedek.

Jesus Christ did not take upon himself the honour of being a high priest. Instead, God made him our high priest and King forever in the priestly order of Melchizedek, when HE said to him, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.” See Hebrew 5: 5; “You are my son, ‘TODAY’ I have become your Father.”

Acts 3: 13; “The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our ancestors has given divine glory to his servant Jesus, etc. The man Jesus is now incontestably divine and has been translated from a corruptible body of matter into a glorious body of brilliant and blinding light, which appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus, from which blinding light came the answer to Saul’s question; “Who are you Lord”, which answer was; “I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute”. (See Acts 22: 8.)

A believer who later restored Saul’s eyesight said to him; ‘The God of our ancestors (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) has chosen you to know his will, to see his righteous Servant, (Jesus of Nazareth) and to hear him speaking with his own voice (His own words) etc. (See Acts 22: 14.)

Jesus, our appointed King and High Priest, who now sits in the heavenly throne of our Father, invites all who win the victory as He has, to sit beside him in his heavenly throne, (See Revelation 3: 21)

1 Corinthians 15: 25-27; For Christ must rule until God defeats all enemies and puts them under his feet. The last enemy to be defeated will be death. For the scripture says, “God put all things under his feet.” It is clear, of course, that the words “all things” do not include God himself, who puts all things under Christ. But when all things have been placed under Christ's rule, then he himself, the Son, will place himself under God, who placed all things under him; and God will rule completely over all.

Acts 17: 31; For He (The Lord God our saviour) has fixed a day (The Great seventh day Sabbath of one thousands years) in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

So, who is the God who will reclaim his throne after the thousand years rule of Jesus and the required number of Jews and Gentiles who will rule as kings with him.

Jesus says in Matthew 25: 31; “When the Son of Man comes as King and all the angels with him, he will sit on his royal throne, etc.

“THE SON OF MAN”, the MOST HIGH to have developed within the creation, is the ‘ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.”

No, remember that Satan himself enjoyed God's presence at one time. God is not afraid to face anything nor should we.

But I guess you are angling for the substitutionary perfection of Christ to justify our getting in to 'Heaven'.
Not that I discount what Christ did for us in any way, but I think following that line of justification misses a huge piece of the picture.

My views on how we can enter into God's presence (his kingdom) is to understand the purpose of the thousand year reign of Christ after his return.

You first. If being saved is purely by the 'blood of Christ', What is that thousand years for?

Jubilees 4: 30; And he (ADAM) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: ’On the day that ye eat thereof ye shall die.’ For this reason, he did not complete the years of 'THIS DAY' for he died during it.

Colossians 2: 16-17; So, let no one make rules about what you eat or drink or about holy days or the New Moon Festival or the Sabbath. All such things are only a shadow of things in the future; the reality is found in Christ.

The weekly Sabbath was but a shadow of the coming reality, which is the seventh day from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that ‘DAY’ at the age of 930.

The ‘DAY’ that the Lord has fixed in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a ‘MAN” that He has ‘CHOSEN’. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that ‘MAN’ from death,

Continued from previous post.

Just as mankind had developed within the bodies of our animal ancestors, so too, the 'SON OF MAN' is the evolving within the body of Mankind.

'The Son of Man', is the child that Eve is to bear, who will crush the head of Satan (See Genesis 3:15.)

As Adam was dying at the age of 930, at the close of the day that he had eaten of the forbidden fruit, Eve was told that she would be reunited with her Lord in six days, which is at the close of the great Sabbath of one thousand years, when heavenly fire incinerates all physical life forms on this earth as revealed through the prophet Zephaniah.

Zephaniah 1: 2-3; The LORD said, “I am going to destroy everything on earth, 3all human beings and animals, birds and fish. I will bring about the downfall of1.3 Probable text I will bring about the downfall of; Hebrew the stumbling blocks. the wicked. I will destroy the whole human race, and no survivors will be left. I, the LORD, have spoken.

Verse 18; On the day when the LORD shows his fury, not even all their silver and gold will save them. The whole earth will be destroyed by the fire of his anger. He will put an end — a sudden end — to everyone who lives on earth.

It is then, with the death of the great Androgynous body of Eve (Mankind) that the umbilical cord will be severed and our saviour, who offers his life for the sins of his flesh in which he developed, and for all those who were obedient to the evolving animalistic spirit within Mankind, and is able to mentally descend into his past and command his obedient servants to do as he commanded them, thereby taking on the responsibility for their obedient actions.

For the end result will prove whether those commands were right or wrong.

We can all write stuff down as to our interpretations of things and I am not knocking that but let’s cut to the chase shall we……Only perfection can enter God’s presence according to the Christian scriptures………so how do you intend to enter God’s presence if you haven’t kept his rules perfectly?

We will all stand in the presence of our Lord God and saviour 'The Son of Man' after the heavenly fire has incinerated all physical life forms on this planet immediately after the thousand years Sabbath, where all the disembodied minds=spirits will be divided by Him as a shepherd divides the sheep from the Goats.

To those on his right, who have cared for his family and fed them when they were hungry, clothed them when they were naked, sheltered them when they were homeless, cared for them when they were sick, visited them when they were in prison, etc, etc, to them He will say; "Come, you who are blessed by my Father! Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world.

To those on His left, who refused to care for his family and feed them when they were hungry, clothe them when they were naked, shelter them when they were homeless, care for them when they were sick, visit them when they were in prison, etc, to them He will say; "Away from me, you who are under God's curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.

I Hope that the words of the Lord are of some help to you mate.

I answered your question already.

By learning to live those two great commandments that Christ gave us. He said that fulfills ALL the law. I believe him.

If you do not wish to discuss it further in Socratic dialog and answer my question to you, that is your choice.

@Anoin
I think I understand your interpretation of those scriptures but it didn’t answer my question about the PURPOSE of the thousand years. All the events foretold are for a reason, not just a prerecorded show for us to passively watch.

Sorry Leadfoot I missed your question.

My understanding of the Christian scriptures is that only perfection can enter perfection.

Therefore, Christ, who was without sin, according to the bible is the only one who can enter in.That’s the point I was making……

…….how therefore are we going to enter in if we are sinners according to the Christian bible, if it doesn’t involve Christ in some way or other?

I was thinking about John 14:6 and what Jesus meant by this.

Thanks ….I have different views on what you have stated though.I feel that Christ has far more to do with it than what you state.

I believe that you are missing something crucial.

Copied from previous post:

According to the ancient scriptures, after Adam had died, Michael was ordered to reveal to Seth how the bodies of man should be mummified and preserved. The body of Adam was then placed in a stone sarcophagus and hidden in the mountain, where the door opens to receive the chest of Adam, this was done said the Lord, in order that no one could interfere with the body, until his rib will have returned to him.

It is also written that Noah took the sarcophagus of Adam on the ark, and in the Book of the Conflicts of Adam we read; “Melchizedec and the three sons of Noah reach a spot where the rock opens and receives the chest containing the body of Adam and the four sacred tokens. There Melchizedec remains, clothed and girded with fire, to serve God before the body of Adam to all time.”

The four sacred tokens I believe, are the four aromatic plants, “Crocus, Calamus, Cinnamon and Nard,’ that Adam was allowed to take from Paradise as he was being driven out and returned to the earth from which he had been created. Would it still be possible today, for the cells of the angelic preserved body of Adam to be cloned?

It is in that thousand years of peace, where, in my opinion, all our resources will be used to prepare for the ultimate destruction of all physical life forms that remain on this planet. Knowing that which is to occur after the one thousand year Sabbath has ended, when heavenly fire incinerates the surface of the earth, with the great wealth that will be paid in tribute by the nations of the world during that thousand year rule of our king and high priest, genetic banks of all physical life forms will be created, (The Ark) and sent to a place of safety in order that when the incinerated earth is once again able to sustain physical life forms, Plants will be planted, animals will be created anew, and when the system for the sustainability of mankind has been put in place, the Lord, our brother, king, and high priest will say, "And now, let us make man in our image and likeness." And a new and more humble Race of men will people this earth.

"Under the guidance of Jupiter (Planet) man prepares, by means of religious exercises, for the journey to the life beyond, and he attains rest under the influence of Saturn." (Basra Encyclopedia)- De Boer, Philosophy in Islam, p 88.

The water ocean on Enceladus , a moon that orbits the planet Saturn, is about 6 miles (10 kilometers) deep and lies beneath a shell of ice 19 to 25 miles (30 to 40 km) thick, researchers said. Further, it's in direct contact with a rocky seafloor, theoretically making possible all kinds of complex chemical reactions — such as, perhaps, the kind that led to the rise of life on Earth.

"The world being melted and re-entered into the bosom of Jupiter, this God continues for some time totally con-centered in himself: . . . afterwards we see a new world spring from him, perfect in all its parts; animals are produced anew; an innocent race of man is formed under more favourable auspices, in order to people this earth." " Seneca, Epist, 9, and Qucest. Nat. L. 3, c, ult.

But we shall not all fall asleep in death, for at the sound of the last trumpet, before the earth is incinerated and while the camp of God is surrounded by the forces of Gog and Magog, we shall be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye from bodies of Corruptible matter into glorious bodies of blinding light, we will have the technology; "Beam us up Scotty."

Continued from previous post.

In 1935, Einstein and physicist Nathan Rosen used the theory of general relativity to elaborate on the idea of black holes and worm holes, proposing the existence of "bridges" through space-time. These bridges connect two different points in space-time, theoretically creating a shortcut that could reduce travel time and distance; Billions of light years to mere kilo-metres.

Any object going into a black hole would be ripped apart by the intense gravitational force inside the black hole and re-converted to the photons from which it was originally created.

A worm Hole could theoretically be used as a method of sending information or travelers through space, unfortunately, physical matter which includes humans journeying through the space tunnels would appear to be an impossibility as there are strong indications that material objects travelling through a worm hole is forbidden by the law of physics.

But now that it has been discovered that Physical matter is but an illusion, and all is, but the eternal energy, I have no doubts that one day. During the coming thousand years of peace, new technology will develop a way to teleport bodies of energy along light beams and reconstruct them to their original form, with no damage done: ‘Beam me up Scotty?’

Just as no two humans have the same fingerprint and no two snowflakes are the same, each atom has its own unique signature (It’s wobble) and when atoms, each with their own unique signature are gathered together to form Molecules, the signature of each molecule is further enhanced, and of the molecular makeup of any human being, no two can be the same. Again (Beam me up scotty)

We know that life can evolve and exist without actual sunlight? Proof of this is to be found in the darkest depths of our oceans, where life has evolved around the extremely hot and noxious gas vents over six miles beneath the surface where sunlight does not and cannot penetrate.

As stated before, the water ocean on Enceladus, a moon that orbits the planet Saturn, is about 6 miles (10 kilometers) deep and lies beneath a shell of ice 19 to 25 miles (30 to 40 km) thick, in direct contact with a rocky seafloor: How much heat must be issuing from the rocky floor of Enceladus to liquify and maintain a 10 kilometer deep ocean beneath a 30 to 40 kilometer ice cap?

I believe that if we are ever to discover life within our Solar System apart from earth, it is there on the Rocky seafloor of Enceladus, that it will be found.

I thought that was what the Christian scriptures.claim is.

I’m not sure what 1000 years has to do with it….but I will review further.

Did you not read all the way to the end of the Book?

I’m sure you have, does your dogma not include the millennial reign of Christ on Earth after his return?
Seems like a major oversight.