MichelleObama: Black and White Culture Not The Same

Quote:

ABC News
Battle of the Spouses: A Bit Better for Obama
Early Edge is Michelle Obama's, But Plenty of Room to Move for Cindy McCainForty-eight percent of Americans in a new ABC News/Washington Post poll see Obama favorably, vs. 39 percent for McCain, a 9-point Obama advantage. Slightly more, though, also view Obama unfavorably 29 percent vs. McCain's 25 percent.

Wha? How is this possible? I thought that Michelle Obama was teh scary, Fox News keeps telling me so on a daily basis!

Cycloptichorn

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hawkeye10 wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
hawkeye10 wrote:
It does point to the problem of Barracks where he has trouble standing up to people in general, but we already know that about him, we don't need to see his wife diminishing him day after day. .

I don't think this is the case at all. Don't mistake his level-headedness and even temperament for wimpiness. If McCain does this, it will be the mistake that buries him.

It is not so much wimpish nature that I am concerned about, it is ignorance. Does he know about the soul's shadow, about the human need for violence, that relationships are at best both co-operative and adversarial, about the power of negative energy, about how to deploy hard power?......for the moment I give him the benefit of the doubt. I think he knows but he does not want to go there due to his nature and temperament. However, his failure to put away Hillary month after month, his failure to for see the Wright problem and then to deal with it when it erupted, and his wife's continued bad behaviour give me pause. In particular, the way that Hillary was able to visibly suck the juice out of him by going to war with him (using tactics that Barrack did not think were fair in the game of politics) has me very concerned. If he knows about this stuff he should have risen to the occasion and run her through the sword. He did not, he deflated.

I interpret his battle with Hillary differently. You have to keep in mind that he was running for his party's nomination against a beloved, strong, and extremely well connected opponent. Emphasis on "party" and "beloved". You can't win from the position of challenger by trashing your party's standard bearer. What you should have seen in that race was a very smart and tactical operation that won the nomination without resorting to the usual slime tactics, and that Hillary's use of such tactics was in fact a reflection on her weakness. Yes, the fight dragged on and he suffered some defeats, but the race was essentially won in February, even if many of us did not recognize it as such. What I see is someone who shows his strengths by sheer facts. Yes, she got nasty, but he won. Yes, she hit him hard, but he won. Yes, she hit him below the belt at times. But he won.

Speak softly, carry a big (smart) stick.

I know this thread is about his wife, and I think that's another place where I see a strength and you see a weakness. He has a good relationship with her because he's strong, not because he's weak, because he's secure and unafraid to make his life with an intelligent, strong, and outspoken woman.

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I watched Michelle Obama co-host "The View" this morning. She seems like a warm, down to earth, unpretenious woman. She fit right in with the rest of "the girls", answered questions quite candidly, and voiced no controversial or strong opinions.

Here is a sampling of some of her remarks:

http://womensissues.about.com/b/2008/06/18/michelle-obama-on-abcs-the-view-some-notes-and-quotes.htm

It is clear that she has to curb her spontaneity somewhat and not just say whatever comes to mind, because her occasionally poor choice of words can be easily misinterpreted.

For instance, she said she initially did not want her husband to go into politics because it is a nasty business and her husband was "sweet and pathetic". The other women immediately reacted to the word "pathetic" and Whoopi Goldberg hastily said, "I think you meant empathetic, em-pathetic." Perhaps Michelle Obama did say "empathetic", but I thought I heard "pathetic", and so did some of the other women on the panel. Even "empathetic" would have been an odd word to use in that context, since empathy is not a particular drawback or vunerablity in politics, or any other endeavor.

I doubt that Michelle Obama sees her husband as "pathetic", in any sense, and I am not sure what word she had probably intended to use. She was describing politics as nasty, and indicating that her husband was sweet, and possibly vulnerable, or not as savage as everyone else in that milieu. But she did blurt something out, which could be distorted or misinterpreted, without giving it enough thought. She didn't get a chance to clarify or alter her comment because the subject shifted quickly. This may well be another comment that the media picks up and runs with.

I think such minor gaffs are due to her political inexperience, and the fact that she is still a rather natural person who responds spontaneously and with candor. She may also have been nervous about co-hosting "The View" today because she knew viewers would be scrutinizing her carefully, and the show has a large audience, and her appearance was even hyped on the front page of the NY Times. So, perhaps she was a little rattled and that's how the word "pathetic" (or possibly "empathetic") popped out. I am positive that was not what she meant to say. She genuinely appears to admire and respect her husband and his abilities.

I think she did an overall fine job and presented herself very well. She seems very likeable and not at all threatening, angry, confrontational, intimidating, or even very different from the average woman. She really was just "one of the girls" in that group this morning. Voters will be able to connect to her and probably will like her as well.

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Thomas wrote:

Oh, and I forgot: she's articulate, too.

OH DAMN YOU!!!

Laughing

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firefly wrote:

I watched Michelle Obama co-host "The View" this morning. She seems like a warm, down to earth, unpretenious woman. She fit right in with the rest of "the girls", answered questions quite candidly, and voiced no controversial or strong opinions.

Yes, but that was a deliberate marketing effort by the Obama campaign to make exactly the impression you got.

The evening before firefly watched 'The View', the New York Times wrote:

Now her husband's presidential campaign is giving her image a subtle makeover, with a new speech in the works to emphasize her humble roots and a tough new chief of staff. On Wednesday, Mrs. Obama will do a guest turn on "The View," the daytime talk show on ABC, with an eye toward softening her reputation.

Source

So that doesn't count, does it?

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...exactly, and they STILL thought she called him pathetic.

For clarification, I am a HUGE admirer of Abigail Adams re her taking it to her husband about his hypocrisy (of course, she did it privately, as not to injure him politically). I wouldn't mind if Michelle Obama spoke up about serious issues--if I thought they were genuinely held, and I agreed with her opinion. There are many I could and would support. She, her candidate husband and the campaign would have to assess if it would be a good gamble, etc... My problem OBVIOUSLY couldn't POSSIBLY be with a strong woman who speaks her mind...sheesh.

It IS with a woman who has made a habit of putting down her husband while he is a viable candidate for President. I know she may do this as a way to keep his head from puffing up, but she takes it too far, and it now "aids the enemy" so to speak. "I'm the best looking and the smartest?" Who says that?

I think she has a severe ego problem herself. Makes him look like a saint--but, also weak.

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Sure, Thomas, this morning's appearance counts. What was on display this morning was an aspect of Michelle Obama, and an aspect that seemed quite genuine.

I see nothing wrong with "packaging" her this way. They should introduce her to the general public in a way which creates a favorable and non-controversial impression. She may have been toned down, but she didn't appear to be faking anything.

Particularly because she is an extremely intelligent, highly educated Black women, I think they have to present the side of her that is like the average woman--the woman who is a mom and wife, who thinks about such things as wearing pantyhose, who takes longer to get ready in the morning than does her husband, etc.--so that people can form a connection to her and not see her as different (either by virtue of her education, her accomplishments, and, especially, her race).

They also want to present her in a way which does not distract from her husband's campaign. And that's very important.

At least one columnist has deemed her performance this morning a hit.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2008/06/18/2008-06-18_michelle_obama_shows_off_her_soft_side_o.html

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Lash wrote:

It IS with a woman who has made a habit of putting down her husband while he is a viable candidate for President.

Lash as a Southern conservative may disagree, but the same applies to husbands of candidates, too. I have seen a couple of Bill Clinton speeches that sounded as if the campaign was really for his own third term, rather than Hillary Clinton's first. It wasn't quite the same as putting her down, but it had a similar effect, and I didn't like it.

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Thomas wrote:

Lash wrote:
It IS with a woman who has made a habit of putting down her husband while he is a viable candidate for President.

Lash as a Southern conservative may disagree, but the same applies to husbands of candidates, too. I have seen a couple of Bill Clinton speeches that sounded as if the campaign was really for his own third term, rather than Hillary Clinton's first. It wasn't quite the same as putting her down, but it had a similar effect, and I didn't like it.

I think the Clintons did that on purpose--campaign strategy. He was one the most popular President in recent history--and that was their way of making it seem like the Bill Faithful had another chance to get him in the WH... If a candidate's male spouse was putting down his wife...sexist that I am...it would probably have me much angrier...

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Lash, I have a feeling that Michelle Obama's comments about being the smartest and the prettiest member of the couple are the sort of things they may joke to each other about in private. The problem is, she should keep such things in private. When said to the wrong audience, it can sound as though she's competing with him or putting him down. I really don't have the impression that she is doing those things. But she has to learn to watch what she says in public.

Bill Clinton, on the other hand, has a hard time relinguishing the spotlight (and handing over power) to his wife. I suspect that Hillary's campaign really brought out his competitiveness because he also saw it as a reflection on himself.

But Bill Clinton is a former President. It's hard for him to be an average husband, or just fade into the woodwork. Michelle Obama does not have those problems. In the political arena, she really is just "the wife".

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Lash wrote:

"I'm the best looking and the smartest?" Who says that?

Someone who is joking? I think her biggest problem is just that she's not used to being in the public eye so she just acts like herself. I dare say that if someone caught me on tape just being myself you all would not think highly of me at all. I have a kind of humor that some people get and others don't. There are things I say deadpan that people who don't know me don't realize was a joke. It has certainly gotten me into trouble before.

It could just be that I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt out of bias, but from the one interview I saw with her (Larry King Live) she came off to me as human and likable.

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Firefly, I have no doubt those things are said in private between the two of them. They recounted in that interview that Barack had a hard time wooing Michelle--that she thought he was a stupid-looking doofus, who wasn't good enough for her. I'm telling you--they may joke about it--but the joking comes from a real place, where she believes it.

and no, I'm not quoting...but the words along with the tone, and manner convinced me. She doesn't take him seriously--probably thinks his success is due to her--and is jealous of his spotlight. This doesn't mean she doesn't have good points--but I think she seriously discounts her husband.

I realize their schtick is for her to put down and him to smile magnanimously, but it's wearing thin and contains a pretty thick cord of truth.

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Lash wrote:

If a candidate's male spouse was putting down his wife...sexist that I am...it would probably have me much angrier...

Good for you, sister! (As an aside, college has had a delightful effect on your attitude.)

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FreeDuck wrote:

I dare say that if someone caught me on tape just being myself you all would not think highly of me at all. I have a kind of humor that some people get and others don't. There are things I say deadpan that people who don't know me don't realize was a joke. It has certainly gotten me into trouble before.

Are you sure you're not my separated-at-birth identical twin sister? There's absolutely no way a woman could be married to me and then run successfuly for president.

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Thomas wrote:

Lash wrote:
If a candidate's male spouse was putting down his wife...sexist that I am...it would probably have me much angrier...

Good for you, sister! (As an aside, college has had a delightful effect on your attitude.)

Thomas. I can't for the life of me figure out why you have me mistaken with some "stand by your man" social conservative. It's like you don't even know me.
<smacks him smartly>

:wink:

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Thomas wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
I dare say that if someone caught me on tape just being myself you all would not think highly of me at all. I have a kind of humor that some people get and others don't. There are things I say deadpan that people who don't know me don't realize was a joke. It has certainly gotten me into trouble before.

Are you sure you're not my separated-at-birth identical twin sister? There's absolutely no way a woman could be married to me and then run successfuly for president.

Hah! Me too. I have no filters, or more precisely, my filters are usually badly calibrated. My sister-in-law was saying how she bonded with her clients so much better with a few drinks -- that's a horrifying scenario for me. I can't afford for the few filters I have to be completely wiped out around people who may or may not bring business to my company.

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Just a thought here even though a bit of an aside;
For many (3 or 4) years Timberland and I had a privately ongoing communication (sometimes openly on this forum where we might discuss some topic or another with the result of "Oh yeah, well I never liked you anyway" which ended up becoming somewhat of a tradition associated with meself. When Timberland died, I saluted him as I always did with "I never like Timber anyway" resulting in a barrage of nasti-gram hate e-mails from various forum members who had no idea was Timber's and my relationship was, my response as the time (unsaid) was fuk all you Nashville cowboys and all you debutantes too. I can't presume to know what the context of Obama's marriage relationship is so I cannot comment on it any more than I can comment on McClain and his wife.

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Michelle got a "subtle makeover" for today's appearance on The View.

But it was kinda hard not to notice the muzzle and leash.

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cjhsa wrote:

Michelle got a "subtle makeover" for today's appearance on The View.

But it was kinda hard not to notice the muzzle and leash.

Well I suppose that's the difference between Obama and Nugent, Ted would have just shot her.

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Thomas wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
I dare say that if someone caught me on tape just being myself you all wo ...

Are you sure you're not my separated-at-birth identical twin sister? There's absolutely no way a woman could be married to me and then run successfuly for president.

Fraternal twin, okay, identical, no way.

You wouldn't want to wish that upon any woman, would you, Thomas? Smile

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MichelleObama: Black and White Culture Not The Same

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