Why Does Barack Obama Want To Ban All Our Guns?

parados wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Yes I do. The attorney general already considers it to be such a round based on the "may be used in a handgun" that is in existing law. And the wording in the amendment "may be used in a handgun" is rather conspicuously identical to that.

Could you provide a link where the attorney general has said this? I would love to see it.

I am betting you won't be able to find me anything from any attorney general making this claim.

I can find something from the ATF, which the Attorney General has delegated authority to when it comes to these sorts of decisions.

It cites a law that does not talk about rifles (but which does talk about ammo which "may be used in a handgun") in order to ban some rifle bullets:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/legal/armor.htm

Note that "7.62x39mm with steel core" (a rifle bullet) is banned under the law they cite.

And note once again that the law they cite does not refer to rifle ammo, but only to ammo "which may be used in a handgun".

Note that "7.62mm NATO AP" (a rifle bullet) is banned under the law they cite.

And note once again that the law they cite does not refer to rifle ammo, but only to ammo "which may be used in a handgun".

Note that "7.62mm NATO SLAP" (a rifle bullet) is banned under the law they cite.

And note once again that the law they cite does not refer to rifle ammo, but only to ammo "which may be used in a handgun".

Since there are no steel-core (or tungsten core) bullets in .30-30, there are no bullets in that caliber for the ATF to list as banned. However, the ATF is well aware of the fact that the .30-30 "may be used in a handgun" and if anyone were to make a steel-core .30-30 bullet, that bullet would show up in their banned list.

Kennedy is also well aware of that fact that the .30-30 "may be used in a handgun", which is why he ranted about the .30-30 when he introduced his legislation about ammo "which may be used in a handgun".

parados wrote:

We only have your misreading of the law or your claims that are obviously made up of what you think people know.

I am only saying how the government is reading the law. If the law is being misread, that misreading is being done by the ATF.

Maybe you should contact the ATF and explain to them that they are misreading the law. It would be a relief to a great many gun owners if you managed to get them to stop banning AP rifle ammo based on the fact that it "may be used in a handgun".

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIL3.html

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I see you failed to show how any of the bullets listed as "armor piercing" on the Hi-Vel cite violate the present law.

Your continued ranting still doesn't explain away this part of the law Oralloy.

Quote:

(C) The term "armor piercing ammunition" does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.

Please explain how deer hunting with a normal .30-.30 round is not using it for sporting purposes.

Without modifying that part of the law the normal .30-.30 round is exempt from being called armor piercing under the law even if they were to reclassify pistol to be everything with a barrel length under 100".

Quote:

That doesn't mean he has any idea what a .30-30 is though.

That is an interesting statement Oralloy. Kennedy doesn't have any idea what a .30-.30 round is yet you claim he was specifically targeting the .30-.30 round. So which is it? Does Kennedy know what it is or not? You seem to change your argument back and forth.

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Setanta wrote:

Why Does Barack Obama Want To Ban All Our Guns?

I suspect it is because he is a pre-eminently sensible man.

As opposed to a lardass pacifist such as yourself?

Banning guns is about the confiscation of power. Empowered citizens don't compute in Obama's sick, sociocommie mind.

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parados wrote:

Kennedy doesn't have any idea what a .30-.30 round is yet you claim he was specifically targeting the .30-.30 round. So which is it? Does Kennedy know what it is or not? You seem to change your argument back and forth.

Ammo bans are the new tool of the nazi gun grabbers since their anti-gun sentiments have failed so miserably. Nazis are what ammo is for....

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Of course if those commie nazis hadn't provided deer with bullet proof vests you wouldn't need armor piercing rounds to take them out.

Rolling Eyes

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My 50 year old Winchester 32 Special fires "armor piercing" bullets, always has, always will. So does my grandfather's 38-55 Savage.

It's all about velocity.

Intentional misleading info like that sh*t out here by paradont is very common among nazi gungrabber types.

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yeah.. and who is it that is providing intentionally misleading ****?

Does your father's 32 special or your grandfather's 38-55 have standard ammunition that is intended for use in sporting purposes? If so then that ammunition is NOT considered "armor piercing" under the law. Anyone claiming Obama and Kennedy voted to make it "armor piercing" in the law would be the ones providing intentionally misleading ****.

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parados wrote:

yeah.. and who is it that is providing intentionally misleading ****?

Does your father's 32 special or your grandfather's 38-55 have standard ammunition that is intended for use in sporting purposes? If so then that ammunition is NOT considered "armor piercing" under the law. Anyone claiming Obama and Kennedy voted to make it "armor piercing" in the law would be the ones providing intentionally misleading ****.

There is no such thing as "armour piercing" ammo. It's a made up term, like "assault rifle". As I stated, my vintage guns with vintage ammo are more than capable of piercing armor.

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cjhsa wrote:

parados wrote:
yeah.. and who is it that is providing intentionally misleading ****?

Does your father's 32 special or your grandfather's 38-55 have standard ammunition that is intended for use in sporting purposes? If so then that ammunition is NOT considered "armor piercing" under the law. Anyone claiming Obama and Kennedy voted to make it "armor piercing" in the law would be the ones providing intentionally misleading ****.

There is no such thing as "armour piercing" ammo.

Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor-piercing_shot_and_shell#Armour-piercing_ammunition

Cycloptichorn

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Did you type that in yourself Cyclop?

I seriously doubt many unsuspecting hunters are loading up with depleted uranium rounds....

So you would argue than any FMJ is somehow armour piercing, am I correct?

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So, cjhsa, you mealy-mouthed blowhard coward, just how long did you serve in the armed forces?

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Never. BFD. I made bombs for the military instead.

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cjhsa wrote:

Did you type that in yourself Cyclop?

I seriously doubt many unsuspecting hunters are loading up with depleted uranium rounds....

So you would argue than any FMJ is somehow armour piercing, am I correct?

Well, why not? What do you hunt using full metal jacket ammo?

Either way, it's immaterial. Armor-piercing is NOT a 'made-up' term, as you claimed...

Cycloptichorn

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It is - any ammo can be "armour piercing", as I stated earlier. You clowns just keep lowering the bar for what you think is OK in your PC little doucheworld.

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cjhsa wrote:

Did you type that in yourself Cyclop?

I seriously doubt many unsuspecting hunters are loading up with depleted uranium rounds....

So you would argue than any FMJ is somehow armour piercing, am I correct?

So then that would mean the ammo hunters are normally using is exempt from being classified as "armor piercing".

Once again we see the claims that Obama and Kennedy are trying to ban all ammo to be completely bogus.

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cjhsa wrote:

Never. BFD. I made bombs for the military instead.

You spread so much BS around here, i don't believe that, either, Tinkerbell. I think you're just the typical loud-mouth coward, who rants about guns and warfare in the attempt to cover up the fact that you're a trembling coward.

I think you're just a liar, Tink.

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parados wrote:

I see you failed to show how any of the bullets listed as "armor piercing" on the Hi-Vel cite violate the present law.

First, I say that these rounds are NOT illegal. I am saying the website is NOT selling steel-core ammo in those calibers.

Second, I don't know how many billion times I've explained it to you, but the law says that you can't sell steel-core ammo in calibers "which may be fired in a handgun". And the following rifle calibers "may be fired from a handgun":

.223 Remington
.30-30 Winchester
.308 Winchester
Soviet 7.62x39

parados wrote:

Your continued ranting still doesn't explain away this part of the law Oralloy.

Quote:
(C) The term "armor piercing ammunition" does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.

That is probably because I am doing no ranting.

Since most of them had no idea the round they were trying to ban had any sporting use, it never would have occurred to them that that provision would be a problem to their ban.

And that exclusion wouldn't have prevented the ban from outlawing all military surplus rifle ammo, so Obama still voted for an unconscionable ban on a lot of ordinary rifle ammo.

parados wrote:

Without modifying that part of the law the normal .30-.30 round is exempt from being called armor piercing under the law even if they were to reclassify pistol to be everything with a barrel length under 100".

True. But that exclusion wouldn't have prevented all military surplus rifle ammo from being banned, so Obama still voted for an unconscionable ban on a lot of ordinary rifle ammo.

parados wrote:

Oralloy wrote:
That doesn't mean he has any idea what a .30-30 is though.

That is an interesting statement Oralloy. Kennedy doesn't have any idea what a .30-.30 round is yet you claim he was specifically targeting the .30-.30 round. So which is it?

It is both. He was trying to ban it without having any idea what he was trying to ban.

parados wrote:

Does Kennedy know what it is or not?

I think it unlikely that Kennedy would go on the Senate floor and talk about the outrageous penetrating power of the .30-30 and call to ban it if he had known he was talking about America's most popular deer rifle.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

cjhsa wrote:
parados wrote:
yeah.. and who is it that is providing intentionally misleading ****?

Does your father's 32 special or your grandfather's 38-55 have standard ammunition that is intended for use in sporting purposes? If so then that ammunition is NOT considered "armor piercing" under the law. Anyone claiming Obama and Kennedy voted to make it "armor piercing" in the law would be the ones providing intentionally misleading ****.

There is no such thing as "armour piercing" ammo.

Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor-piercing_shot_and_shell#Armour-piercing_ammunition

Cycloptichorn

You guys are talking about different terms. There is the "real" version of the term armor-piercing, and there is the "gun control" version of the term "armor-piercing".

The term as it is used in gun control legislation is mostly nonsense, and could best be defined as "whatever ammo the Democrats are currently trying to ban".

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

cjhsa wrote:
So you would argue than any FMJ is somehow armour piercing, am I correct?

Well, why not?

The best reason why not is because it isn't armor-piercing, despite Kennedy and Obama trying to ban it as such.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

What do you hunt using full metal jacket ammo?

Are you contending that if ammo isn't used for hunting, it is magically bestowed with armor-piercing properties? If not, what does your question about hunting have to do with whether or not FMJ is "armor-piercing"?

Pretty much anything could be hunted with FMJ ammo -- in the appropriate caliber of course.

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FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.

FACT: Barack Obama supports requiring law-abiding gun owners to register their firearms.

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama wants to eliminate your Right to Carry.

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and "research."

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used
in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.

FACT: Barack Obama supports "one-gun-a-month" sales restrictions.

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.

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Why Does Barack Obama Want To Ban All Our Guns?

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