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Why Does Barack Obama Want To Ban All Our Guns?

 
 
oralloy
 
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2008 09:58 pm
Barack Obama's record on gun control: LINK

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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 14,006 • Replies: 221
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2008 10:05 pm
At the bottom of this Snopes article, a more accurate summary of Obama's gun views may be seen.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/blackwell.asp
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2008 10:17 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
At the bottom of this Snopes article, a more accurate summary of Obama's gun views may be seen.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/blackwell.asp


How is that is any way "more accurate"?
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2008 10:19 pm
It just is.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2008 10:21 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
At the bottom of this Snopes article, a more accurate summary of Obama's gun views may be seen.


Every claim made on this page is cited and linked: LINK

Barack Obama is on record in 2004 calling for a federal statute to make it illegal for state governments to issue concealed carry permits to civilians.

Barack Obama actually voted in 2005 in favor of a federal ban on .30-30 deer hunting ammo.

Sorry, but Snopes can't do anything to erase the Congressional record I'm afraid.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2008 10:24 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
It just is.


I see... You can'yt point out anything inaccurate with the originally linked article but find something that doesn't even address the point it is supposed to be addressing and it's magically just "more accurate". To much kool-aid for you...
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hanno
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2008 10:36 pm
good post - real problem. I mean the 2nd Amendment - someone wants to take it literally, even if that's not the only way to read it, interpretation A don't preclude interpretation B now does it? I mean, we could have citizens and the militia option - come to think of it where does one even draw the line - 'well regulated' but they couldn't have meant the Fed and some of these states, you know... Are we going to turn it into a holy-text that don't work in vernacular or let it be what it is to people? Christ forbid folk get to take it upon themselves that they do-right, someone might fail.

It's jealousy, pure and simple, civic -heroes wanting to be aligned with the most charismatic points of public sentiment and keep anyone else from getting off some other way.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2008 06:54 am
The headline on this thread is, Why does Obama want to ban all our guns. He supports the right to own a handgun.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2008 08:35 am
Quote:
Barack Obama actually voted in 2005 in favor of a federal ban on .30-30 deer hunting ammo.

That silly argument again?

The law did NOT ban .30-.30 deer hunting ammo.
You can't show me where it does so.

Could you at least by honest Oralloy? The title of this thread is dishonest based on the link you gave. Your claim that the law in 2005 bans deer hunting ammo is dishonest.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2008 09:16 am
Why Does Barack Obama Want To Ban All Our Guns?

I suspect it is because he is a pre-eminently sensible man.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2008 09:56 am
I'd be more interested in how he plans to fix the healthcare system so I can afford to go to emergency room if some dickhead shoots me. :wink:
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2008 11:57 am
parados wrote:
Quote:
Barack Obama actually voted in 2005 in favor of a federal ban on .30-30 deer hunting ammo.

That silly argument again?


Reality is not silly, no matter how much you dislike it.



parados wrote:
The law did NOT ban .30-.30 deer hunting ammo.


Liar.



parados wrote:
You can't show me where it does so.


Liar. I already have, the last time you scurried in to deny reality:

link to old post from the last time Parados tried to deny reality


And the link that started off the thread shows how Obama voted to ban .30-30 deer hunting ammo too:

link to Obama's horrendous anti-gun record



parados wrote:
Could you at least by honest Oralloy?


You shouldn't run around falsely accusing people of your own dishonesty.



parados wrote:
Your claim that the law in 2005 bans deer hunting ammo is dishonest.


You shouldn't run around falsely accusing people of your own dishonesty.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2008 04:15 pm
I see.. so the ammunition used to shoot deer is more powerful than normal ammunition?

You ARE being dishonest. .30-.30 ammunition is NOT standard hand gun ammunition.

If your claim is valid then it is also valid to claim that everyone that voted against the bill voted to kill police officers.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2008 04:36 pm
parados wrote:
I see.. so the ammunition used to shoot deer is more powerful than normal ammunition?


You've already been told that that isn't the part of the legislation that would have banned .30-30 deer hunting ammo.



parados wrote:
You ARE being dishonest.


You shouldn't run around falsely accusing people of your own dishonesty.



parados wrote:
.30-.30 ammunition is NOT standard hand gun ammunition.


The legislation doesn't refer to "standard handgun ammo". It covers all ammo that can be fired from a handgun, even if the ammo is designed for rifles.



parados wrote:
If your claim is valid then it is also valid to claim that everyone that voted against the bill voted to kill police officers.


Nope. The people who voted against the bill knew deer rifles aren't made for killing police officers.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2008 06:26 pm
This is why the gun fanatics shouldnt be alowed to discuss items in public, they always lose their cool and go for the ad-homs.

You are mis quoting and missrepresenting facts through the GunCite website. (AS if they represent an objective view of the topic).

Gun nuts believe in all superlatives and extreme positions, theres no talking sense with them so why try
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2008 07:36 pm
farmerman wrote:
This is why the gun fanatics shouldnt be alowed to discuss items in public, they always lose their cool and go for the ad-homs.


Your mischaracterization of "gun fanatics" (read "people who care about civil rights) is highly disingenuous.



farmerman wrote:
You are mis quoting and missrepresenting facts through the GunCite website.


No I'm not. But feel free to try to prove it.



farmerman wrote:
(AS if they represent an objective view of the topic).


Yes, in fact, they are. Feel free to try to prove they aren't if you like though.

You might want to look them over before you actually try talking about them though. Everything they say is fully linked and cited.



farmerman wrote:
Gun nuts believe in all superlatives and extreme positions, theres no talking sense with them so why try


The KKK uses bigoted language and spews bigoted stereotypes at civil rights advocates too.

Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2008 07:47 pm
oralloy wrote:
parados wrote:
I see.. so the ammunition used to shoot deer is more powerful than normal ammunition?


You've already been told that that isn't the part of the legislation that would have banned .30-30 deer hunting ammo.

You have never explained HOW that part is relevent to any ammo since you claim ALL ammo can fit into hand guns. Rolling Eyes

There is NOTHING in the amendment banning .30-.30 ammo. There is only a distortion by you. A distortion that is beyond the pale since you ignore the bill it is being amended to.

Let me quote that bill that is NOT changed by the amendment.
Quote:
(C) The term "armor piercing ammunition" does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.

Link to the law Oralloy horrendously distorted


The above is NOT amended by what you claimed bans .30-.30 ammo
Are you really going to argue that ammunition used to hunt deer is NOT used for sporting purposes? I would love to hear what you call deer hunting since it isn't a sport in your opinion.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2008 08:15 pm
parados wrote:
oralloy wrote:
parados wrote:
I see.. so the ammunition used to shoot deer is more powerful than normal ammunition?


You've already been told that that isn't the part of the legislation that would have banned .30-30 deer hunting ammo.

You have never explained HOW that part is relevent to any ammo since you claim ALL ammo can fit into hand guns. Rolling Eyes


Nice try. I've never said that all ammo can fit into handguns.



parados wrote:
There is NOTHING in the amendment banning .30-.30 ammo.


The main purpose of the amendment was to ban that and two other calibers, as evidenced by Senator Kennedy's speech when he first introduced the amendment.



parados wrote:
There is only a distortion by you. A distortion that is beyond the pale since you ignore the bill it is being amended to.

Let me quote that bill that is NOT changed by the amendment.
Quote:
(C) The term "armor piercing ammunition" does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.

Link to the law Oralloy horrendously distorted


The above is NOT amended by what you claimed bans .30-.30 ammo
Are you really going to argue that ammunition used to hunt deer is NOT used for sporting purposes? I would love to hear what you call deer hunting since it isn't a sport in your opinion.


Since I've never referred to that law, but only to the amendment that Obama voted on, it is dishonest of you to claim I've "horrendously distorted" it.

I wonder why Senator Kennedy ranted about the .30-30 when he proposed the Amendment:

Quote:
Another rifle caliber, the 30.30 caliber, was responsible for penetrating three officers' armor and killing them in 1993, 1996, and 2002. This ammunition is also capable of puncturing light-armored vehicles, ballistic or armored glass, armored limousines, even a 600-pound safe with 600 pounds of safe armor plating.

It is outrageous and unconscionable that such ammunition continues to be sold in the United States of America.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2004_record&page=S1634&position=all


Are you now going claim Kennedy didn't say it was all about the .30-30 Winchester and .223 Remington when he first introduced the amendment??
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2008 09:18 pm
Since the amendment amends the law you can't ignore the law. You have to look at the law as it would be amended before you can make your claim, which is proven false.

There is no way the amendment amended the law to ban .30-.30 ammo.

As we see. The amendment did NOT ban .30-.30 ammo. Your statement is shown to be a distortion. The law still said that any ammo used for sporting purposes was NOT "armor piercing." What Obama voted on didn't change that. Since it did NOT change that there is no way he voted to ban .30-.30 ammo. Your statement was and is a distortion. What Kennedy said doesn't change the law. The law even if amended would NOT have banned .30-.30 ammo. Squirm and call names all you want Oralloy. The law is there for all to read. Your distortion is there for all to see.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2008 09:28 pm


Are you now going claim Kennedy didn't say it was all about the .30-30 Winchester and .223 Remington when he first introduced the amendment??[/quote]

Yes, I am going to say that because anyone that bothers to read Kennedy's ENTIRE statement would realize that his concluding paragraph is NOT just about the .30-.30. In fact the paragraph on the .30-.30 is only a continuation of what weapons have killed officers. He doesn't mention banning the ammo for that weapon. Nor is his statement about the .223 for ALL .223 ammunition.

Quote:
I direct my colleagues' attention to
the Web site of Hi-Vel, Incorporated, a
self-described exotic products distributor
and manufacturer in Delta,
UT. You can access its online catalog
on the Internet right now. Hi-Vel's
catalog lists an entry for armor-piercing
ammunition. On that page you will
find a listing for armor-piercing bullets
that can penetrate metal objects. The
bullets are available in packages of 10
for $9.95 each. Hi-Vel carries armorpiercing
bullets for both the .223 caliber
rifles such as the Bushmaster sniper
rifle used in the Washington area attacks
in October 2002, and the 7.62 caliber
assault weapons.
0 Replies
 
 

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