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Why Does Barack Obama Want To Ban All Our Guns?

 
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 05:32 am
parados wrote:
oralloy wrote:


The fact that we don't have the right to have it doesn't mean I can't protest if I think it is being banned.

I don't have the right to eat pizza, but I'd be up in arms if the government went and banned pizza.

Of course if you tried to say pizza can't be banned because it was protected by the 2nd amendment, everyone would think you were an idiot.

It seems you are now saying that hunting guns are not protected by the 2nd amendment. Am I understanding you correctly?


I would love to be able to claim a "right to have hunting weapons" as a Constitutional right, but I just don't see the justification for it.

The right to have militia weapons is clear from the debates of the anti-Federalists when they called for the Bill of Rights.

The right to have self-defense weapons is clear from its existence in Common Law at the time the Ninth Amendment was ratified.

I don't see a similarly clear argument for protecting hunting guns.

So, in short, the answer to your question is yes. But if I ever see a decent argument for changing my mind, I'd be delighted to do so.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 05:38 am
This page (requires Java) will relay a live (text) report from the Supreme Court as it hands down today's rulings (including timely links to the rulings themselves).

http://www.coveritlive.com/index.php?option=com_altcaster&task=siteviewaltcast&altcast_code=4b9ce315ba

The website's reporting goes live at 9:45 AM eastern time.

The Supreme Court begins giving the morning's rulings at 10:00 AM eastern time.

(The Java applet updates the reporting automatically -- no need to refresh browsers.)


No guarantees that Heller will come today, but if it does, this will be the first place to relay the news, and the first to link the ruling.

Cool
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 06:37 am
Setanta wrote:
WateronthebrainMan can never be accused to employing logic . . . that would be so unfair . . .


You have an irrational fear of facing the facts.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 07:40 am
oralloy wrote:
Setanta wrote:
oralloy wrote:
The purpose of our constitutional gun rights is . . . to have guns for use in militias and for self-defense. (emphasis added, editing has not changed essential meaning, and clarifies the allegation about constitutional authority.)


Jesus, you always try to pull off **** like this. Absolutely nowhere in the constitution is any putative right of self-defense mentioned, in a context of keeping and bearing arms, nor in any other context.


It doesn't have to be mentioned. It emanates from the penumbra of the Second Amendment by way of the Ninth Amendment.

The Supreme Court will explain it all in a week or so (they should have all this year's rulings issued within the next 10 days, with the next batch coming Monday morning).


In a word:

Bullshit.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 07:52 am
Setanta wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Setanta wrote:
oralloy wrote:
The purpose of our constitutional gun rights is . . . to have guns for use in militias and for self-defense. (emphasis added, editing has not changed essential meaning, and clarifies the allegation about constitutional authority.)


Jesus, you always try to pull off **** like this. Absolutely nowhere in the constitution is any putative right of self-defense mentioned, in a context of keeping and bearing arms, nor in any other context.


It doesn't have to be mentioned. It emanates from the penumbra of the Second Amendment by way of the Ninth Amendment.

The Supreme Court will explain it all in a week or so (they should have all this year's rulings issued within the next 10 days, with the next batch coming Monday morning).


In a word:

Bullshit.


Setanta, you are misguided and misinformed - I hope you don't own firearms, drive a car are have the ability to procreate.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 08:07 am
oralloy wrote:
This page (requires Java) will relay a live (text) report from the Supreme Court as it hands down today's rulings (including timely links to the rulings themselves).

http://www.coveritlive.com/index.php?option=com_altcaster&task=siteviewaltcast&altcast_code=4b9ce315ba

The website's reporting goes live at 9:45 AM eastern time.

The Supreme Court begins giving the morning's rulings at 10:00 AM eastern time.

(The Java applet updates the reporting automatically -- no need to refresh browsers.)


No guarantees that Heller will come today, but if it does, this will be the first place to relay the news, and the first to link the ruling.

Cool


No Heller ruling today.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 08:23 am
oralloy wrote:
oralloy wrote:
This page (requires Java) will relay a live (text) report from the Supreme Court as it hands down today's rulings (including timely links to the rulings themselves).

http://www.coveritlive.com/index.php?option=com_altcaster&task=siteviewaltcast&altcast_code=4b9ce315ba

The website's reporting goes live at 9:45 AM eastern time.

The Supreme Court begins giving the morning's rulings at 10:00 AM eastern time.

(The Java applet updates the reporting automatically -- no need to refresh browsers.)


No guarantees that Heller will come today, but if it does, this will be the first place to relay the news, and the first to link the ruling.

Cool


No Heller ruling today.


Next batch of rulings comes Thursday June 19.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 08:43 am
Setanta wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Setanta wrote:
oralloy wrote:
The purpose of our constitutional gun rights is . . . to have guns for use in militias and for self-defense. (emphasis added, editing has not changed essential meaning, and clarifies the allegation about constitutional authority.)


Jesus, you always try to pull off **** like this. Absolutely nowhere in the constitution is any putative right of self-defense mentioned, in a context of keeping and bearing arms, nor in any other context.


It doesn't have to be mentioned. It emanates from the penumbra of the Second Amendment by way of the Ninth Amendment.

The Supreme Court will explain it all in a week or so (they should have all this year's rulings issued within the next 10 days, with the next batch coming Monday morning).


In a word:

Bullshit.


No, the Ninth Amendment protects all our unwritten rights.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 08:50 am
I belive there is an inhereant right to self-defense. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Second Amendment however. IMO the Second has about as much relevance today as the Third.

All of us are entitled to opinions but I laugh when I see legal illiterates trying to argue Constitutional Law as if they know anything.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 08:55 am
edit
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 09:03 am
oralloy wrote:





I don't see a similarly clear argument for protecting hunting guns.



LOL how do you define "hunting guns?" These are guns that kill or maim animals but do not harm humans? Who manufactures such a weapon?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 09:16 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
oralloy wrote:





I don't see a similarly clear argument for protecting hunting guns.



LOL how do you define "hunting guns?" These are guns that kill or maim animals but do not harm humans? Who manufactures such a weapon?


Chances are good that Obama will also ban all sex toys.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 12:27 pm
H2O_MAN wrote:


Chances are good that Obama will also ban all sex toys.


At least those of large caliber....
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 02:31 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
IMO the Second has about as much relevance today as the Third.


It's relevant to me. I can't make a good case for man-portable full auto weapons based on self-defense issues. I want my militia-related rights too.

(One of my concerns with the pending Supreme Court ruling is a fear that they will say the Second Amendment is "only" about self-defense -- writing the militia out of the matter entirely.)
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 02:40 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
LOL how do you define "hunting guns?" These are guns that kill or maim animals but do not harm humans?


A hunting gun is designed with the goal killing game animals as opposed to the goal of rapidly incapacitating an attacker.

If fired against a human, they are incredibly lethal. Round for round most of them are considerably more deadly than guns designed for use against humans, though they don't carry very many rounds.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 06:21 am
Don't forget EBR's oralloy....

You can get them in hunting calibers these days, .308, .30-06, .338WM, etc. I want one.

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/images/RFA2-308.jpg
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 07:31 am
cjhsa wrote:
Don't forget EBR's oralloy....

You can get them in hunting calibers these days, .308, .30-06, .338WM, etc.


I've never heard of .30-06 and .338WM in such a gun.

Made by customizing a Browning BAR?
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 09:26 am
http://www.dpmsinc.com/

One of many.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 09:34 am
http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWVMS20-45H.asp

In .450 Bushmaster
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 09:45 am
The Saiga 102 comes chambered in .30-06. It is an AK-alike but only holds 3-rounds in the standard magazine.
0 Replies
 
 

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