Au, that essay of Sowell's was certainly on point. Noting your comment that we're going to be screwed no matter who gets elected this year, on some issues I agree. So does Thomas Sowell. But there are some compelling reasons to vote for McCain over Obama.
Sowell illustrated one of the biggies of these in a follow up column that I posted on the General Election 2008 thread
HERE
When you look at it through Sowell's eyes, there is all the more reason to diminish Obama's electability as much as possible.
joefromchicago wrote:Or, in other words, you no longer want to talk about the specifics of the Rezko matter. I understand. If my position were as weak as yours, I'd want to change the subject too.
What's to talk about? You give Obama the benefit of the doubt, while I think the transaction smells like a turd covered in burnt hair, and I wonder how many more questionable characters are going to come out of Obama's closet. You wish to continue this discussion further?
kikey
Mental block. You would like it better if I said does not from now on. Also spell ck does not catch it.
Interesting piece!
Poll: Obama Leads McCain by Slight Margin
Friday, June 6, 2008 5:00 PM
If Nader, the independent, is not included, Obama's lead is 49 percent to 46 percent. About one in five voters say they may change their minds. Four in 10 Democrats say Hillary Rodham Clinton should stay in the race until the party's August convention.
If she is Obama's running mate and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney is McCain's, the Democrats' lead is 6 percentage points. Just over half of Democrats want Obama to put Clinton on his ticket, and if he doesn't one in four want her to fight for the spot at the convention. More than four in 10 Republicans still say they'd rather see the GOP nominate someone besides McCain.
The CNN-Opinion Research Corp. poll was conducted June 4-5 and included telephone interviews with 921 registered voters. It had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. Also included were interviews with 447 Democrats and 435 Republicans, with a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 4.5 points for each.
COMPLETE RESULTS:
Barack Obama, 47 percent
John McCain, 43 percent
Ralph Nader, 6 percent
© 2008 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Ticomaya wrote:What's to talk about? You give Obama the benefit of the doubt, while I think the transaction smells like a turd covered in burnt hair, and I wonder how many more questionable characters are going to come out of Obama's closet.
Yes, I know: I have all of the facts and you have ... well, apparently, you have your sense of smell.
Ticomaya wrote:You wish to continue this discussion further?
I'm not sure why we had this discussion in the first place. If I had known that I was arguing with your nose, I wouldn't have bothered.
Foxfyre wrote:But what's to talk about? Re the Rezko indictment, the issue is not whether Obama was involved in it. There is no evidence or even any suggestion that he was. The issue is the kinds of people Obama surrounds himself with, enlists as allies, depends on for support, accepts support from, etc. etc. and how this sometimes does not pass the smell test--the appearance of impropriety and all that. 'Insufficient evidence' counts in a court of law, but not always in the court of public opinion.
My, but the conservatives have certainly got extraordinarily refined senses of smell all of a sudden. It has been over seven years, but it's good to know that their sinuses have finally drained.
Foxfyre wrote:Will the Court of Public Opinion affect Obama's electability? It is too soon to say. Given the kinds of people associated with Obama, however, I'm guessing that all shoes that might possibly drop have not yet been dropped. And there's no way to tell if any of these are more damning that what we already know. What we already know hasn't even made his devoted supporters blink though I'm guessing they would be portrayed as much more damning if attached to McCain.
This is just priceless. Conservatives can't find any skeletons in Obama's closet, so they are left to complain about all of the skeletons that they
haven't found.
Yeah - "I don't know what, but something's wrong with that guy!!"
Perhaps they should hit their treasure trove of Iraq rhetoric, and accuse Obama of pursuing "skeleton related program activities." That one impressed me a lot the first time around.
Don't laugh - the level of histrionics that will develop in search of a "scandal" (because God forbid they attack policies or address issues) promises to be record-setting.
joefromchicago wrote:Foxfyre wrote:But what's to talk about? Re the Rezko indictment, the issue is not whether Obama was involved in it. There is no evidence or even any suggestion that he was. The issue is the kinds of people Obama surrounds himself with, enlists as allies, depends on for support, accepts support from, etc. etc. and how this sometimes does not pass the smell test--the appearance of impropriety and all that. 'Insufficient evidence' counts in a court of law, but not always in the court of public opinion.
My, but the conservatives have certainly got extraordinarily refined senses of smell all of a sudden. It has been over seven years, but it's good to know that their sinuses have finally drained.
Foxfyre wrote:Will the Court of Public Opinion affect Obama's electability? It is too soon to say. Given the kinds of people associated with Obama, however, I'm guessing that all shoes that might possibly drop have not yet been dropped. And there's no way to tell if any of these are more damning that what we already know. What we already know hasn't even made his devoted supporters blink though I'm guessing they would be portrayed as much more damning if attached to McCain.
This is just priceless. Conservatives can't find any skeletons in Obama's closet, so they are left to complain about all of the skeletons that they
haven't found.
Your partisanship is clouding your judgement.
Clearly Rezko and Wright will be issues the Republicans will jump on. Then there is the issue of Mrs. Obama and her secret thesis.
That should be fun!!!
Many of those on the Left have certainly have had no problem applying the 'smell test' to anybody on the Right they see in a bad light. Just one example: the mantra that Bush and Cheney were once oil guys and so therefore any proposed energy policy must be motivated by allegiance to their oil buddies rather than any interest in the good of the country. It doesn't matter that their oil ties were years ago.
So no matter how much you guys try to kill the messenger--talk about a lame defense--at least some of us aren't willing to accept a candidate just because he speaks well, looks good, is young, uses the word 'change' a lot, and/or is black. We aren't willing to overlook what he says he wants to do, whether he changes that story depending on who he is talking to, his track record as an activist, his track record as a state legislator, and his track record as a U.S. Senator. And we aren't willing to overlook the kinds of people he has surrounded himself with over the last couple of decades. We think such scrutiny to be more wise than relying on an emotional and aesthetic annointing of somebody based on little more than he is the perceived messiah and/or he isn't the Republican.
Advocate wrote:Interesting piece!
Poll: Obama Leads McCain by Slight Margin
Friday, June 6, 2008 5:00 PM
If Nader, the independent, is not included, Obama's lead is 49 percent to 46 percent
[...]
COMPLETE RESULTS:
Barack Obama, 47 percent
John McCain, 43 percent
Ralph Nader, 6 percent
That seems to indicate that Nader gets more McCain leaners than Obama leaners. Cool. (Within the margin of error though and probably can't actually read much into that.)
joefromchicago wrote:This is just priceless. Conservatives can't find any skeletons in Obama's closet, so they are left to complain about all of the skeletons that they haven't found.
woiyo wrote:Then there is the issue of Mrs. Obama and her secret thesis.
That should be fun!!!
You mean that there's a secret and different one to "Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community" ... and that such is important whether her husband can become a president or not?
Holy crap, as if someone would bother about such.
Yeah, was just about to say the same thing, Walter. The thesis isn't secret.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8642.html
Ooh, I should put this on Kicky's thread.
Walter Hinteler wrote:woiyo wrote:Then there is the issue of Mrs. Obama and her secret thesis.
That should be fun!!!
You mean that there's a secret and different one to "Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community" ... and that such is important whether her husband can become a president or not?
Holy crap, as if someone would bother about such.
Why then is it being withheld?
Why then do you think it's being withheld?
woiyo wrote:Your partisanship is clouding your judgement.
Pot (overheard in conversation with Kettle): "You're black!"
woiyo wrote:Clearly Rezko and Wright will be issues the Republicans will jump on.
Of course the Republicans will jump on them. That's because Rezko and Wright are phony issues. The Republicans are
past masters of the
phony issue campaign.
sozobe wrote:Why then do you think it's being withheld?
It was withheld for awhile, but after a mild bruhaha and considerable speculation of why, it has since been made available. It is actualy pretty innocuous stuff:
SNOPES LINK
Note tense.
Why does Woiyo think it is currently being withheld?
It's not.
As far as I can tell, "oooh it's being withheld" to "whatever, here ya go" took a month or so.
At any rate, there isn't anything for Woiyo to look forward to (as in the original quote that I responded to), since it's already available.
Woiyo wrote:Then there is the issue of Mrs. Obama and her secret thesis.
That should be fun!!!
Having fun yet?
(I agree about innocuousness, Foxfyre.)
snood wrote:Yeah - "I don't know what, but something's wrong with that guy!!"
That seems to about sum it up...
