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Fox in the henhouse

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 04:49 pm
provocateur . . .

hehehehehe . . .
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 05:04 pm
I rarely try to give advise of the kind to women or men. I know how inadequate my responses can be.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 05:08 pm
Me too. Still, if I think I've got something worthwhile, I'll sometimes toss it in.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 05:15 pm
Re: Fox in the henhouse
Chai wrote:

naw, I don't think it was falling apart, and I still don't think it is.

I'm still 100% behind what I said.

What I see, it are people picking apart the dots over the i's, and choosing to ignore the message as a whole.....


Have you been taking lessons from Foxfyre, Chai?
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 05:24 pm
Re: Fox in the henhouse
ehBeth wrote:
Chai wrote:
If a female comes here and is posting about man trouble, being abused, dominanted, feeling trapped by them, etc. etc. I do not think any man has any business becoming involved in the discussion,


Isn't this what Stray Cat was on about - men-only and women-only fora on A2K?

There are already websites that cater to people who want that kind of division.

That's not A2K.

I liked the comment someone made that if we think someone's made a dumb suggestion (by our definition), we're free to say that. Taken to the extreme, the advice-giver could tell the questioning-poster to go to another website where there are no men.

but men having no business posting in those threads as a matter of principle? I'd say nope, not a good plan.






I do see Chai's point, but I most agree with ehBeth here.
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JustBrooke
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 06:14 pm
I can see what Chai is saying. If a woman is in the tender most stages of her healing process, a man coming at her with advice (even with his good intentions) stands a chance of not getting anywhere, and causing her to regress even farther into herself. But, I think Chai knows that is not always going to be the case. And probably not even MOST of the time. For more often than not....the victim is either going to ignore him and his advice....or listen and maybe actually get something out of it. For the most part, abused women don't want to hear advice from anyone. Male OR female. Especially if it leads them down the (presumed) "hard" road of having to start life all over again.


I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with WRC. It stands for white ribbon committee. I don't have time to research it's origin but I do believe it was born up in Canada. Anyhow, it is a group of wonderful men that want their voice to be heard in matters of female abuse. They do many things to help the women of DV. They even sometimes put on speaking engagements. They let these women know that it is NOT ok to be abused. That they must leave. Some of the men in WRC split off into groups calling themselves different things. One group I am very familiar with is called "Gentle Men". It really is quite awesome what they do.

I guess my point in talking about them , is that things have changed a lot I think. It used to be that men really didn't even want to talk about this kind of thing. Now we have men stepping forward, truly wanting to help in any way they can. There are even a few shelters that have begun to hire male counselors. I believe there is one in MN.

The men on this forum have, for the most part, been very good with the advice given. One man in particular that likes to try and help these women, has had to endure what most people never have. He knew an abuser. And he knew the abusers girlfriend. Of course he didn't know that this man was abusing his girlfriend. Imagine his shock when this man killed his victim and turned the weapon upon himself…committing suicide. Imagine the questions that were going through his head when he asked himself if he SHOULD have known. Because if he had known……maybe he could have saved 2 lives. This man is Bill. Thank you , Bill for the hours you have spent trying your best to make sure ANOTHER life is not snuffed out.

Helpers - givers - tender hearted- truly caring people - …..they come in all shapes, sizes, sex, ages. I think the women that come onto a forum and seek advice, have to know that they are not just in a room full of women. And they understand they will get advice from both sexes.

All that being said…….I do understand Chai's position. BUT…I have to say that I think for the most part the women on this forum have had some really good advice from the men on this forum. Of course.....we do have a great bunch of guys here.
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 06:16 pm
fishin wrote:
Chai wrote:

you know fishin' I was thinking of that when I typed it, and considered editing....however, I did not think that anyone was going to think I was including the cop who shows up outside her door, after she called 911.


Well... words have meaning and when someone says "inital contact with the police" I, as someone who was involved with law enforcement, think of the intial contact with the police - not what happens 3 or 4 steps down the road from that inital contact.



If you read what I typed...it says......When a women is raped, isn't the initial contact with the police normally another woman? Meaning the rape crisis counselor?

Yes fishin' words have meaning, but you have to relate to all of them.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 06:34 pm
Chai wrote:
fishin wrote:
Chai wrote:

you know fishin' I was thinking of that when I typed it, and considered editing....however, I did not think that anyone was going to think I was including the cop who shows up outside her door, after she called 911.


Well... words have meaning and when someone says "inital contact with the police" I, as someone who was involved with law enforcement, think of the intial contact with the police - not what happens 3 or 4 steps down the road from that inital contact.



If you read what I typed...it says......When a women is raped, isn't the initial contact with the police normally another woman? Meaning the rape crisis counselor?

Yes fishin' words have meaning, but you have to relate to all of them.


I did read what you typed. Unfortunately for you, it isn't in standard English so you shouldn't expect people to comprehend your intended meaning.

How is "Meaning the rape crisis counslor?" considered a question in any way, shape or form? It's not even a complete sentence. And when your second comment doesn't correlate with your first comment which one are people supposed to ignore? Since the rape crisis counselor isn't the "inital police contact" either one end of you post or the other is completely off course.

If you want people to understand what you are saying then perhaps you should start with being clear on what you are trying to convey. That would seem to be the overall problem with the message in this thread to begin with.
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 06:42 pm
Is this an English class?

you're really reaching now fishin'

My english compostions sucks...my spelling is worse...I didn't realize there was a test to pass before one was allowed to post.

If you don't understand what someone is saying, why not ask rather than pick and choose the lines that prove your point.

Now that that totally incomprehensible sentence structure has been made clear to you....you surely see now what I meant.

If you don't, abandon all hope.

I don't mind a good arguement fishin, but, as I said before, I'm not going to argue over a t being crossed, or if a sentence is incomplete.....you're intelligent enough to figure it out.

By now, you're not even debating or arguing,or on the subject. you're just out with your red pen marking my mid term english compositon. And I'm not going to play that game with you.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 06:44 pm
And you've veered far and wide from your initial post. But, I suppose if I had started a thread and after 7 pages no one had bought my argument, I'd throw in the towel too...
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 06:48 pm
fishin wrote:
And you've veered far and wide from your initial post. But, I suppose if I had started a thread and after 7 pages no one had bought my argument, I'd throw in the towel too...


I'm not asking anyone to buy anything.

I'm stating my stance.

as far as ranging far and wide...I don't see that. If anything, I'm the one staying on topic.

And if it did, or does range, so what? Don't most of the threads do that?

Be a very boring forum is threads did flow and flux.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 06:51 pm
I having a hard time reconciling everything you've said, Chai.

Chai wrote:
If a female comes here and is posting about man trouble, being abused, dominanted, feeling trapped by them, etc. etc. I do not think any man has any business becoming involved in the discussion, lending support with little ((((hug)))) signs, showing up to express that most men are just wonderful, and so on.



Chai wrote:
I amended my postion above drew dad...I admited I wasn't thinking in strict terms of a public forum.


Chai wrote:
I never said relationship help.

I said, women who are being abused.



Chai wrote:
I'm still 100% behind what I said.




Would you care to restate your current thinking, so that I'm not so confused?
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martybarker
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 06:53 pm
May I interject for a moment? I think I may know what you are trying to say but I don't want to assume that I know where this stems from.
I have been in the position myself of not really knowing for sure if the kind gestures were manipulation or just kind gestures from my male neighbor when I was at my most vulnerable state. Sometimes I still question it even though I have put distance between us.

Then there is the new relationship while still in a fresh vulnerable position. I believe that was a bit manipulative at first but it grew into a friendship that I feel blessed to have had.

I don't know, I consider myself a pretty naive person.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 06:54 pm
I might add:

When you say, "comes here and is posting" then I'm gonna assume you're talking about A2K and/or the Internet, and "feeling trapped" could include non-abusive relationships, IMO.
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 07:36 pm
martybarker wrote:
May I interject for a moment? I think I may know what you are trying to say but I don't want to assume that I know where this stems from.
I have been in the position myself of not really knowing for sure if the kind gestures were manipulation or just kind gestures from my male neighbor when I was at my most vulnerable state. Sometimes I still question it even though I have put distance between us.

I don't know, I consider myself a pretty naive person.



EXACTLY!!!

you got it marty.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2008 01:08 am
Chai's hateful nonsense
I only just learned of this thread.

For those of you who don't know it; this thread is a thinly veiled, extremely hateful, attack on me personally, for nothing.

For the record:

Yes, I have spent many hours attempting to empathize with, comfort and advise abused women, who I believed to be at various risks of mortal danger.

Yes, in the process, I frequently have thrown out a virtual (((hug))). It is a virtual comfort device I learned from others on those very threads.

Yes, as a general rule, I am usually willing to step in front of a virtual attack pack, if I feel they are unnecessarily piling on a poster in hurtful fashion (preferring that they try to penetrate my thick skin, as opposed that of a mentally unstable women who has shown signs of suicidal tendencies on more than one occasion).

What a monster I must be.

The rest of Chai's unhappy horseshit... is just that. During any one of the above mentioned attempts to help a domestic violence victim come to her senses; the only PMs I ever sent went straight to Brooklyn, in hopes the angel could make herself available to deliver better, more accurate and concise advice, empathy and knowledge than I am capable of. She has always come through. I have never attempted to contact a DV victim or even sent one a PM for that matter, let alone attempted to take advantage in any way.

I remain astounded that anyone could misjudge me so completely and I challenge any member to provide one link to any such incident where anything I wrote could reasonably be interpreted as the sleazy behavior the miserable author of this thread has described.

This is what Chai thinks is an appropriate response to repeated random acts of kindness. Rolling Eyes To the best of my recollection; I have only ever participated in less than a half dozen of these sad, mostly unproductive threads… and if memory serves; the last was well over a year ago. I find them deeply disturbing and suspect I've probably subconsciously avoided learning about others, that have no doubt posted here since, because it is depressing as hell to see the pattern of failure (reuniting with monsters) that usually mark their conclusions. But this is where I supposedly go to cruise vulnerable chicks, right? Rolling Eyes

Now I have to say; if I were the monster Chai has convinced herself I am, I would deserve every hateful thing she has written about me, and then some. There are no doubt plenty of foxes in hen houses everywhere. But I am not that man. Everyone who knows me, and anyone who's a reasonable judge of character should realize that when confronted with the kind of A-hole she's accused me of being; I would be among the first to confront and expose him. The only reason I can forgive her for the wickedly hateful **** she's said about me is a) there's no profit letting it fester and b) I think she's actually dumb enough to believe it. While it saddens me some, that anyone could believe such a thing, I believe in her sick twisted mind she actually thinks she's got this right. I certainly hope the number who concur are few and far between. (shrugs) What can ya do?

Ps. Thank you, Brooklyn, for your kind words and trying to set the record straight.
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2008 01:53 am
Bill, I've always thought of you as a decent human being, in no way as you've been described.

We all make mistakes and I firmly believe that you made one in defending an indefendable case.

This doesn't change what I think of you as a person.

Hope it's clear..
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2008 02:04 am
Quite clear, Francis. Thank you for that and do know the feeling is mutual.
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2008 05:36 am
feel better bill?
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2008 05:57 am
Bill O: you have my support here. I've read most of your replies on A2K and see nothing but good words (and near as I can tell) good intent. Of course, I'm not an estrogen-carrier so I could be disqualified as irrelevant. Careful of those online curly braces {{{ }}} as they can be misconstrued. Laughing
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