Fox in the henhouse

This is a public forum. A public forum works because it is public.

People can state their opinion. If said opinion is flawed (or even offensive) other people can refute or denounce it. The multiple opinions that results are all there for anyone (including the original poster) to accept or reject.

I have often felt that women here have at times expressed sexist opinions about men and the male role in society. When this happens I challenge it. I would never suggest that women should not be able to express their opinions on these topics no matter how annoying I may, at times, found them.

I find that even on touchy subjects, different sides of the issue are expressed and I can't see that censorship or exclusion of any voice would help at all.

A knitting circle, or a powder room are still great places to talk about how bad men without anyone disagreeing. You are suggesting we restrict the very thing that makes a public forum, such as this, worthwhile.

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Hmm..maybe I am taking this thread in a different way then it was meant (?)

I did not think she was talking about LITERALLY stopping anyone from saying anything?

or.. I could be missing the point entirely.. Happens all too often anyway
Laughing

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Why is is so many feel the need to keep pointing out that being a "creep" doesn't apply to ALL men?

I have repeatedly stated that is not my stance, yet, most of the posts so far seems to need to express that not ALL men are bad.

However, I stand by what I say, that if a woman has been abused, she is far better off, in the beginning, being counseled, comforted and spoken to by a member of her own gender.

Ok, I admit, it did not come out right saying they shouldn't have any business doing this on this forum....my bad.

When I am here, I feel sometimes as though I am personally with people. Thinking about it, perhaps that is more what I meant.

I'll restate....in general, women, should stick with women when they have been abused by men. Not forever, but it is the immediate safest place to be.

When a women is raped, isn't the initial contact with the police normally another woman? Meaning the rape crisis counselor?

ebrown...I'm not talking about knitting circles, or about women sitting around talking about how bad men are.....where have I said that?

I am not being anti male, and it doesn't matter if someone thinks I'm being that way. I know I'm not.

What I am being is pro-female.....the 2 do not equal each other.

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I get what Chai's saying... and I don't get it at the same time...
I think she's painting with too broad a paintbrush...

I like the idea of people calling each other out if someone thinks that's happening to anyone. (Can that sentence be more confused?)

I like when I see other people explaining the actions of, let's say, a silly veteran member to a newbie. Like when the Silly Ones pass by and make a flippy remark on a sensitive issue. That's cool, then the newbie knows not to take it personally.

If someone's feeling like someone else is being foxy to a poor little hen, they could say something in the general public about or even pass a little freindly pm to the newbie to give them a private heads up. (of course, explaining to them at the same time why they won't be able to pm back.)

On the men stay out of female thread thing.... no I'm not buying it.

On foxes in general, some Foxes don't even realize they are being Foxes...They are just as clueless as the Hens.

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Chao wrote:

However, I stand by what I say, that if a woman has been abused, she is far better off, in the beginning, being counseled, comforted and spoken to by a member of her own gender.

Even if true, and you have in no way made any argument to demonstrate this.

In fact, you have yet to address in any fashion whatsoever how you expect Internet text to be sexualized given that real-time socio-sexual dynamics, if they can be said to exist at all, are wholly a matter of presentation and perception of text.

As discussed, I suggest that the socio-sexual dynamics that some may believe is inherent to plain Internet text, in particular that there is some sort of a definitive masculine text separate from feminine text, is rather a belief of the reader.

You have a huge way to go before any of your claims have any substantiation whatsoever.

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Chai wrote:

When a women is raped, isn't the initial contact with the police normally another woman? Meaning the rape crisis counselor?

No. Initial contact is normally made by routine patrol officers so it is completely a matter of luck of the draw. Most communities don't even have a certified rape crisis counsler on their staffs. The responding patrol officer (whether male or female) makes the inital contact and ensures the person is safe/secured. They may offer to call a female responder that their department has a pre-arranged system established with once they are on scene and will do so if the woman requests it. Even in major cities that have a specific department to deal with sex crimes, the majority of the staff in that department is male.

There just aren't enough women in law enforcement to provide that sort of coverage. Rape crisis counselers aren't usually police. They are usually specially trained social workers and victims are referred to them by the police.

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Upon what basis are threads in relationships and marriage to be equated with rape?

This is really entering the Twilight Zone.

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Perhaps rather than attempting to silence a segment of the A2K community, one could instead redirect the thread initiator to a more appropriate resource.

I certainly agree that a potential victim should not advertise such in a public area.

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fishin wrote:

Chai wrote:
When a women is raped, isn't the initial contact with the police normally another woman? Meaning the rape crisis counselor?

No. Initial contact is normally made by routine patrol officers so it is completely a matter of luck of the draw. Most communities don't even have a certified rape crisis counsler on their staffs. The responding patrol officer (whether male or female) makes the inital contact and ensures the person is safe/secured. They may offer to call a female responder that their department has a pre-arranged system established with once they are on scene and will do so if the woman requests it. Even in major cities that have a specific department to deal with sex crimes, the majority of the staff in that department is male.

There just aren't enough women in law enforcement to provide that sort of coverage. Rape crisis counselers aren't usually police. They are usually specially trained social workers and victims are referred to them by the police.

you know fishin' I was thinking of that when I typed it, and considered editing....however, I did not think that anyone was going to think I was including the cop who shows up outside her door, after she called 911. The majority of staff in the sex crimes unit is undoubtably male.....I am not talking about the legal crime....I'm talking about the person who, as in the case of the female responder you mentioned, sits with the victim
while she shakes....meaning the social workers, who, are in the majority female.

In fact, if you google terms like rape female social worker, rape male social worker, you see that the male social worker comes into play when the victim is male.

When women are raped, the vast majority of the time, the social worker/counselor etc that appoaches them is a female.

I frankly don't think a women who has been raped within the past few hours hours wants to share the experience with a man, unless she has to.

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Setanta wrote:

Upon what basis are threads in relationships and marriage to be equated with rape?

This is really entering the Twilight Zone.

I can't answer that set, I didn't put this thread in relationships and marriage. I put it in General.

Although, it's common enough for a spouse to be raped by their partner. Happens every day.....

Would a female want to share the fact her husband is raping her with a man?

Would a man want to share that his wife is sexually abusing him (no jokes please) with either a male or a female?

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DrewDad wrote:

Perhaps rather than attempting to silence a segment of the A2K community, one could instead redirect the thread initiator to a more appropriate resource.

I certainly agree that a potential victim should not advertise such in a public area.

I amended my postion above drew dad...I admited I wasn't thinking in strict terms of a public forum. However, I still stand by the thought that abused women are better off and safer getting advice, comfort, counseling from a female....again.....initially.

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After complaining that i was "sidetracking," you have wandered pretty far from a contention that men should, acting in good faith, refrain from replying to threads in which women asked for relationship help.

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so?

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I never said relationship help.

I said, women who are being abused.

rape is included under that umbrella.

Where did you pick up I was talking about Fern and Ed having a tiff over which way the toilet paper roll goes?

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What threads are you talking about?

Which of the threads on this forum do you feel men should have stayed out of?

Is this a hypothetical thing... cause I don't see a single thread that would have benefited by a ban on male posters.

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Re: Fox in the henhouse

Chai wrote:

If a female comes here and is posting about man trouble, being abused, dominanted, feeling trapped by them, etc. etc. I do not think any man has any business becoming involved in the discussion, lending support with little ((((hug)))) signs, showing up to express that most men are just wonderful, and so on.

Given that some women may consider the placement of the toilet paper roll and example of "man trouble," i don't think my characterization is out of line. Furthermore, it's quite a leap to now be dragging rape in.

I'd say you've turned up the melodrama dial, because your original argument was falling apart on you.

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Chai wrote:

you know fishin' I was thinking of that when I typed it, and considered editing....however, I did not think that anyone was going to think I was including the cop who shows up outside her door, after she called 911.

Well... words have meaning and when someone says "inital contact with the police" I, as someone who was involved with law enforcement, think of the intial contact with the police - not what happens 3 or 4 steps down the road from that inital contact.

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Re: Fox in the henhouse

Setanta wrote:

Chai wrote:
If a female comes here and is posting about man trouble, being abused, dominanted, feeling trapped by them, etc. etc. I do not think any man has any business becoming involved in the discussion, lending support with little ((((hug)))) signs, showing up to express that most men are just wonderful, and so on.

Given that some women may consider the placement of the toilet paper roll and example of "man trouble," i don't think my characterization is out of line. Furthermore, it's quite a leap to now be dragging rape in.

I'd say you've turned up the melodrama dial, because your original argument was falling apart on you.

naw, I don't think it was falling apart, and I still don't think it is.

I'm still 100% behind what I said.

What I see, it are people picking apart the dots over the i's, and choosing to ignore the message as a whole.....

like ebrown....do I have to state yet again I amended my initial statement, saying I wasn't appying this specifcially to this forum, or any, or the internet for that matter?

you're welcome to go back and search for it. I've already chewed that cabbage at least twice.

set...you're just being ornry.

As I said upfront, someone won't like it.....but that's how I see it, and from not only my own experience, but the experience of other women I've known, and do know.

Not mad, or confused about my stance. It is my stance.

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I liked caribou's post...

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Where the **** is Dr Phil when you need him?

This thread deserves an hour on his show.

Or maybe the Jerry Springer show would be more fitting.

Ok, ok.. so they are both men but men do give the best advice.

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Fox in the henhouse

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