@aidan,
2pac said:
Quote: Anyway....Respect...that is the key, and in my opinion you did the right thing by speaking up....I do not cuss when I'm working on a church, or working for or around religious folk....even though I poke fun of religion at every given chance...I just don't do it....simply out of respect.
I said:
Quote: Okay - even though I'm going to ask this question- it does NOT mean I advocate racist speech in the workplace or disrespecting people in general.
How is it respectful, or rather, what good does it really do in the long run - if you put on a false face when you are in someone's presence, you PRETEND that you respect them and their beliefs or whatever or whoever they are - but as soon as you leave their presence- you poke fun at them, or resume your hateful speech, etc?
I repeat the question - in general. When no one has made any sort of hateful remark about anyone - they're just in your presence and you know that you hold them in low esteem for some reason - but you are doing the politically correct thing and wait until they turn their back for you to address someone else with what you think of them in any honest fashion?
I wrote:
Quote: I think this is the question that I have. It's not a problem for me to be respectful in the workplace whether that be a church or a school, because I don't really have to cover up any innate prejudice or bias in those situations. But I'll tell you - when I was working in the prison and one inmate asked me what I thought of drug dealers - I had to tell him the truth.
Diest asked:
Quote:That's a solicited request though is it not?
Yes, it was, but actually I risked being fired to bypass the politically correct answer which would have been to understandingly recognize all the mitigating factors in his environment and upbringing to end up saying, 'It's really not my place to judge...' and I said, when he started listing all the mitigating factors and why's and wherefore's of why he did what he did and ended up in prison...'That's bullshit. You had a choice and a responsibility to your children and family and your community and you chose to do something you knew would be harmful to all of them - and here you sit. Don't ask me to understand why you HAD to sell drugs to children. I never will.'
Believe me - I wasn't supposed to say that in my position. But I couldn't live with myself if I'd said anything else.
I said:
Quote: I understand the need for polite and appropriate behavior in the workplace - most definitely. But I do think that David and Hawkeye have a point about the possible pitfalls or inadvisability or usefulness of putting on these politically correct facades and MANDATING tolerance.
It can be attempted. But it's not really very effective at the end of the day - and sometimes- and I've seen this with my own eyes- it causes more resentment and tension than anything else.
Diest answered:
Quote:This is a total strawman aidan. Don't fall for it. Ask yourself: What mandate? No mandate exists here. As for resentment and tension, I think the defamation of minority groups creates more tension and I think that resentment is a hell of a lot more justified than some racist with a crybaby attitude who gets pulled aside by his boss. He asked for it.
No it's not. These are my thoughts from my experience Diest - I'm not really the sort of person to fall for what anyone else drums up without a lot of thought first.
I know - from watching an entire school system being FORCED to confront their views on race and MANDATED to re-examine their level of tolerance toward other races through diversity training and mandatory reading groups, that various people who'd started out about as far from what I would describe as racist, ended up becoming so resentful of having their every thought and action called into question in terms of race- that they either just summarily learned how to play the game - or they flat out refused and honestly, their view on the whole subject was poisoned. What wasn't negative and toxic was turned that way by the way it was handled.
I wrote:
Quote: Because don't you think the people who are being 'tolerated' or tokenly 'respected' know that's the case?
Don't you think the black students in Genoves' school know that they're not welcome - even though all the language is 'appropriate' and the welcome mat has been laid out at the door?
Quote:
First off, I don't believe this genoves yahoo has a school. This is largely based on the fact that in his posting history, he's shown that he has a pattern of falsifying who he is. His credibility is shot.
I do believe he worked in a school. I do. The point is that surface and/or token respect and appropriate language is not enough. These children deserve more. They deserve the real thing.
Diest said:
Quote:Secondly, those minority children need advocates willing to stand up for them. If we do nothing, then we are a part of the problem.
Truer words have never been spoken. That's pretty much what I've been doing for the last twenty-five years - for other minority children as well as the two I am mother to.
I said:
Quote:If it were me - I think I'd just say - Jesus, have enough respect for me to just say what you bloody think- and then maybe we can get somewhere with these issues - if we can start from some sort of semblance of position of the truth.
Diest answered:
Quote:There is no truth in racism aidan. None. It is an inherently illogical and immature world view.
But the truth is that it exists. And when we enforce the use of language that would seem to deny its existence and presents a seemingly wonderful and pristine facade that isn't real - what are we really accomplishing?
Another wonderfully pleasant day for all involved- yeah right.
I'll say it again, these children deserve more - they deserve the real thing.
And it's not happening for them by the means we are currently employing.
We need to try something else.
