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What will you like most about the McCain Presidency?

 
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Mar, 2008 08:05 pm
McGentrix wrote:
OMG! They are attacking the green zone! We have failed! FAILED! Rolling Eyes


Are you facetiously (look it up) claiming that we have succeeded?


http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/mission_accomplished.jpg
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Mar, 2008 08:13 pm
I'm sorry, I'm not a big fan of the war, but is that photo seriously stating that Bush's mission was to cause soldiers to die?
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Mar, 2008 08:49 pm
maporsche wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm not a big fan of the war, but is that photo seriously stating that Bush's mission was to cause soldiers to die?



Why are you asking me?
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Mar, 2008 09:19 pm
It's all about Nam
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Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Mar, 2008 11:37 pm
I don't think American citizens are bad.
But i am sure the American system is rotten to the core.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2008 07:50 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
maporsche wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm not a big fan of the war, but is that photo seriously stating that Bush's mission was to cause soldiers to die?



Why are you asking me?


If I was asking you, I would have quoted you.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2008 08:02 am
Quote:
But I was even more struck by Mr. McCain's declaration that "our financial market approach should include encouraging increased capital in financial institutions by removing regulatory, accounting and tax impediments to raising capital."

These days, even free-market enthusiasts are talking about increased regulation of securities firms now that the Fed has shown that it will rush to their rescue if they get into trouble. But Mr. McCain is selling the same old snake oil, claiming that deregulation and tax cuts cure all ills.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/28/opinion/28krugman.html?ref=opinion

As with McCain's three depressing years of vote-pandering to those he once bravely and honestly called 'agents of intolerance', he's now doing exactly the same thing with the Norquist people.

In 2000, McCain explained to the San Francisco Chronicle,
Quote:
"Certainly, in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Row v. Wade, which would then force X number of women in America to illegal and dangerous operations."
But in full pander-mode, he now says Roe ought to be overturned.

Here's what Norquist said about McCain in 2006 at newsmax...
Quote:
Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:47 p.m. EDT
Grover Norquist: John McCain Flip-flops Too Much

Republican strategist Grover Norquist is blasting GOP presidential frontrunner John McCain, saying the Arizona maverick is a world-class flip-flopper when it comes to core Republican issues.

"What McCain has done is flip-flopped on the gun issue [and] on the tax issue," Norquist told ABC's "This Week." "He used to be a Reagan Republican on taxes. He's voted against every one of President Bush's tax cuts."

Norquist, who heads up Americans for Tax Reform, said the Arizona maverick has the same problem when it comes to environmental issues and campaign finance reform.

"He used to be a critic of [the] Kyoto [Accord], then he became a champion of Kyoto," Norquist told "This Week." "He used to have the correct policy opposing campaign finance reform before the Keating 5 scandal and then he became a champion of restricting First Amendment rights."
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/6/11/214905.shtml

But not so much anymore. Previously against Bush's tax cuts, now McCain has fallen into doctrinal line...
Quote:
http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2008/tax_agenda.html

Regulation of industry and finance markets? Opposition to torture? Not any more.

He's being a good boy.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2008 08:04 am
So basically Blatham, you will not enjoy McCain being president. You could just say that I guess.
0 Replies
 
Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2008 08:15 am
I'm looking forward to hearing the reanimated corpse of Charles Dickens speak as guest at the inauguration. He and McCain go way back. I mean way, way back.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2008 08:21 am
McGentrix wrote:
So basically Blatham, you will not enjoy McCain being president. You could just say that I guess.


As you know, his chances aren't good though possibly better than any of the others up for the nomination.

It's difficult to figure out what the man is thinking now. He's had to do more brown-nosing than any other contemporary politician I can think of in order to gain adequate support within the conservative/republican world such that he could even hope to gain that nomination. And in that process, he has reversed himself on matters of policy and deep principle.

Those reversals, just a very few of which are noted above, aren't up for question (as reversals). He's done them all and more.

From which it follows that we don't know, as regards many issues (others, where he's been consistent, eg imperialist militarism, we do know) what the hell he'll actually do if he were to attain power. So your question is difficult to answer.

It's not a good sign that he has become so pliable and weak of character such that he meekly falls into line with doctrine and existing power structures and forgoes the honesty and the courage of dissident speech and belief. There's really few politicians on the horizon now who less deserve the mantle of 'maverick' than he does. And it is a phucking depressing tragedy that your party and your movement have broken the poor bastard in this manner.

If he gained power and became, once again, a person with principle and character, then his imagined presidency could have some real benefits to your nation and party. But I think the chances are slim to none.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2008 08:26 am
blatham wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
So basically Blatham, you will not enjoy McCain being president. You could just say that I guess.


As you know, his chances aren't good though possibly better than any of the others up for the nomination.

It's difficult to figure out what the man is thinking now. He's had to do more brown-nosing than any other contemporary politician I can think of in order to gain adequate support within the conservative/republican world such that he could even hope to gain that nomination. And in that process, he has reversed himself on matters of policy and deep principle.

Those reversals, just a very few of which are noted above, aren't up for question (as reversals). He's done them all and more.

From which it follows that we don't know, as regards many issues (others, where he's been consistent, eg imperialist militarism, we do know) what the hell he'll actually do if he were to attain power. So your question is difficult to answer.

It's not a good sign that he has become so pliable and weak of character such that he meekly falls into line with doctrine and existing power structures and forgoes the honesty and the courage of dissident speech and belief. There's really few politicians on the horizon now who less deserve the mantle of 'maverick' than he does. And it is a phucking depressing tragedy that your party and your movement have broken the poor bastard in this manner.

If he gained power and became, once again, a person with principle and character, then his imagined presidency could have some real benefits to your nation and party. But I think the chances are slim to none.


That's a fine opinion. It's wrong, but a fine one none the less.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2008 08:30 am
I'm here to help.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2008 08:43 am
Blatham, you like to express your opinion regarding the PR machine of the Republican party. What is your opinion of the often used Dem PR of McCain wanting to make the Iraq war last 100 years? That seems to be one of the many battle cries from the left these days. For example:

-- "He (McCain) says that he is willing to send our troops into another 100 years of war in Iraq" (Barack Obama, Feb. 19).

-- "We are bogged down in a war that John McCain now suggests might go on for another 100 years" (Obama, Feb. 26).

-- "He's (McCain) willing to keep this war going for 100 years" (Hillary Clinton, March 17).

-- "What date between now and the election in November will he (McCain) drop this promise of a 100-year war in Iraq?" (Chris Matthews, March 4).

Do you have an issues with these statements?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2008 09:48 am
McGentrix wrote:
Blatham, you like to express your opinion regarding the PR machine of the Republican party. What is your opinion of the often used Dem PR of McCain wanting to make the Iraq war last 100 years? That seems to be one of the many battle cries from the left these days. For example:

-- "He (McCain) says that he is willing to send our troops into another 100 years of war in Iraq" (Barack Obama, Feb. 19).

-- "We are bogged down in a war that John McCain now suggests might go on for another 100 years" (Obama, Feb. 26).

-- "He's (McCain) willing to keep this war going for 100 years" (Hillary Clinton, March 17).

-- "What date between now and the election in November will he (McCain) drop this promise of a 100-year war in Iraq?" (Chris Matthews, March 4).

Do you have an issues with these statements?


It's not a bad question. First of all though, there's a historical and readily identifiable PR/propaganda machine set up in and by the conservative camp which doesn't have a comparable reflection on the liberal side. That's something the left has to properly understand and then copy or match or handle in some manner.

Here's the youtube clip (ten seconds or so) where McCain made the '100 years' statement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFknKVjuyNk

The context has McCain saying it would be fine if US troops were there for 100 years if no troops are being injured. He makes the comparison with S Korea and Japan. However, he goes on to mention that it's "a volatile part of the world". Yes it is. And Iraq/Afghanistan are now the most volatile of all, and the most dangerous to Americans, as a consequence of the two invasions. All of which makes his 'so long as no troops injured' proviso pretty empty.

Still, you are correct to point to an element of exaggeration in Dem accounts of what McCain said and meant through omitting that proviso.

But two points can be made here. First, exaggeration of this sort is an absolute staple of political rhetoric ("Wright's speeches are filled with hate"). One would perhaps love to see such exaggerations removed from the discourse, but it won't happen in politics or in soap advertisements or in mother's describing the wonderfulness of their children. All we can do, I think, is draw a line at purposeful falsehoods and otherwise, try to fill in the context to give a fuller picture when 'our' guy is hit.

The second point is that any such statement a politician makes (or that the opposition brings to the foreground) ought to be considered in relation to other statements on the matter the politician has made or other policy stances he/she has taken on similar matters.

And here, McCain is certainly susceptible to serious criticism because of his statements and policy positions on what he thinks are proper uses of the US military and his stances on what the US ought to be doing as regards the middle east. There's simply no question that McCain would be far more willing than the Dem candidates and the US population (perhaps more willing even than Bush, according to his own statements pre 9/11) to use the military in order to reshape the world according to the perceived interests and preferences of the US. That's a critically important matter for the electorate to understand and consider.

I'm sure he deeply regrets this response he made that day. It has allowed the Dems to take a simple sound bite and from it, create an easy to understand narrative which will not fall well on the ears of most americans - precisely like 'god damn america' from Wright or 'the first time I've been proud' from Mrs. Obama.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2008 10:01 am
Karma. I just turned to the WP and there's a piece by Krauthammer on precisely what we are talking about. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/27/AR2008032702616.html?nav=hcmodule

If you see something in his argument which you find compelling as rebuttal to what I've just written, let me know and we'll take it up.

I recently met the wife of the publisher of the WP and, though her husband and her hold quite different political notions from Krauthammer, they are friends and she described him as "a very kind man". As I really quite liked this lady, I now have a slight soft spot for charles. Slight.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2008 10:28 am
McGentrix wrote:
Blatham, you like to express your opinion regarding the PR machine of the Republican party. What is your opinion of the often used Dem PR of McCain wanting to make the Iraq war last 100 years? That seems to be one of the many battle cries from the left these days. For example:

-- "He (McCain) says that he is willing to send our troops into another 100 years of war in Iraq" (Barack Obama, Feb. 19).

-- "We are bogged down in a war that John McCain now suggests might go on for another 100 years" (Obama, Feb. 26).

-- "He's (McCain) willing to keep this war going for 100 years" (Hillary Clinton, March 17).

-- "What date between now and the election in November will he (McCain) drop this promise of a 100-year war in Iraq?" (Chris Matthews, March 4).

Do you have an issues with these statements?




Badeep badeep badeep
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2008 11:09 am
Blatham, I was reading the same article when I posted above. I believe this sums it up though.

Quote:
As Lenin is said to have said, "A lie told often enough becomes truth." And as this lie passes into truth, the Democrats are ready to deploy it "as the linchpin of an effort to turn McCain's national security credentials against him," reports David Paul Kuhn of Politico.

Hence: A Howard Dean fundraising letter charging McCain with seeking "an endless war in Iraq." And a Democratic National Committee news release in which Dean asserts: "McCain's strategy is a war without end. . . . Elect John McCain and get 100 years in Iraq."

The Annenberg Political Fact Check, a nonprofit and nonpartisan project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania, says: "It's a rank falsehood for the DNC to accuse McCain of wanting to wage 'endless war' based on his support for a presence in Iraq something like the U.S. role in South Korea."



Needless to say, when I see you railing against the Republic PR machine, I think you should give equal time to both sides.

Oh, and stop quoting salon.com so much. It'll rot your brain.
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2008 12:46 pm
One of Obama's advisors (McPeak) said he hoped we'd be there for a century. Citing our long occupation of Europe and Japan, he says 'this is the way great powers operate'.

Hmmmmm.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2008 09:51 am
McCain's Free Ride from the Media VIDEO
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2008 09:52 am
624787
0 Replies
 
 

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