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The Wright thing - how much effect will it have on Obama 08?

 
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Mar, 2008 06:58 pm
Republicans Crazy Ass Preachers

Reublicans: Only Our Pastors Are Allowed To Say Crazy ****
By: Blue Texan Tuesday March 18, 2008 10:30 am



As the wingnut chorus predictably disses Obama's eloquent speech, it's important to remember how completely ridiculous and manufactured this whole Wright "controversy" is:

...the idea that America deserves terrorist attacks and other horrendous disasters has long been a frequently expressed view among the faction of white evangelical ministers to whom the Republican Party is most inextricably linked. Neither Jerry Falwell nor Pat Robertson ever retracted or denounced their view that America provoked the 9/11 attacks by doing things to anger God. John Hagee continues to believe that the City of New Orleans got what it deserved when Katrina drowned its residents and devastated the lives of thousands of Americans. And James Inhofe -- who happens to still be a Republican U.S. Senator -- blamed America for the 9/11 attacks by arguing in a 2002 Senate floor speech that "the spiritual door was opened for an attack against the United States of America" because we pressured Israel to give away parts of the West Bank. The phrases "anti-American" and "America-haters" are among the most barren and manipulative in our entire political lexicon, but whatever they happen to mean on any given day, they easily encompass people who believe that the U.S. deserved the 9/11 attacks, devastating hurricanes and the like. Yet when are people like Falwell, Robertson, Hagee, Inhofe and other white Christian radicals ever described as anti-American or America-hating extremists? Never -- because white Christian evangelicals who tie themselves to the political Right are intrinsically patriotic.

Well, yeah. Duh.

By all accounts, George Bush had private conversations with Pat Robertson about matters as weighty as whether to invade Iraq. Isn't that a big scandal -- that the President is consulting with an American-hating minister -- someone who believes God allowed the 9/11 attacks as punishment for our evil country -- about vital foreign policy decisions? No, it wasn't controversial at all.

John Hagee privately visits with the highest level Middle East officials in the White House and afterwards pronounces that they're in agreement. John McCain shares a stage with Hagee and lavishes him with praise, as Rudy Giuliani did with Pat Robertson. James Inhofe remains a member in good standing in the GOP Senate Caucus. The Republican Party has tied itself at the hip to a whole slew of "anti-American extremists" -- people who believe that the U.S. provoked the 9/11 attacks because God wants to punish us for the evil, wicked nation we've become -- and yet there is virtual silence about these associations.

Once again, it's important to keep making the point that when you've built an entire political movement on the backs of a crazy mob of Dixiecrat Savonarolas who make outrageous hateful comments pretty much every day, you've sort of opted-out of your ability to throw stones.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Mar, 2008 08:03 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Bernie, I'll concede that, because his political record on National issues is so scanty, I probably want/demand more information from Obama that I do the other candidates. I'm probably also applying a higher standard to Obama than to some of the others -- for example Hillary's ever evolving answer to the Iraq question is merely an ever updated, classically constructed Clintonian triangulation -- not very satisfying, but I have long since stopped expecting more from her on it.

My eyes glaze over with the details of the competing Health Care plans, knowing as I do that the vested interests have not yet done their work (which the surely will do) through the Congress.

On international relations - an area in which, just in the natural play of the cards, we know the least about Obama's strategic thinking, he has, sadly in my view, remained particularly silent. There are a number of "third rails" out there that the other candidates, gifted with longer experience, have spent years avoiding in any meaningful way, despite numerous oportunities to be specific. These tend to be the areas where the greatest natural contradictions in our strategic interests lie; Israel & the Middle East; the distemper that infects a resurgent Islamic World; the growing divide between the natural strategic interests of this country and Europe. I can understand what may be his reluctance to just jump in these troubled waters. However, perhaps you can understand my frustration that he has not chosen to do so.

However, even on other less dangerous issues, such as Free Trade, Energy Policy, he has either chosen to remain silent on the serious, controversial issues, limiting himself to a mere recital of the whole list of green energy platitudes; or in the case of NAFTA to what appears to have been a very cynical pandering to retrogate and truly destructive views.


george

I'm not at all certain that you'd find some or many of his ideas congenial even if fully explicated simply as a consequence of diverging philosophies. But I think you'll have to bite the bullet on this because the logical consequence of no liberal ever again gaining the office is effectually a one party state. And, we can't really make the claim that the present state of the union is all sparkly and beautiful.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Mar, 2008 08:19 pm
Bernie,

You are missing the point here. I find him to be an attractive candidate and I am probably looking for some philosophical or political reasons to resist the attraction.
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Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Mar, 2008 08:30 pm
Oh I could say something here but I won't.
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Mar, 2008 08:40 pm
Mame wrote:
Oh I could say something here but I won't.


Once you've had black...?
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Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Mar, 2008 09:46 pm
No, no, no... Shocked
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 01:28 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Obama talks about policy specifics in his speeches and appearances all the time, George. You just don't bother to listen to what he actually says. I would suggest giving it a try.

Cycloptichorn


Hussein Obama is merely blowing in the wind. Is that why the guy has at least 20 secret service agents guarding him?
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 06:37 am
georgeob1 wrote:
Bernie,

You are missing the point here. I find him to be an attractive candidate and I am probably looking for some philosophical or political reasons to resist the attraction.


Oh. Sorry, george. One of my philosophy profs suggested that point-missing ought to be my major. I never quite understood why he said that.

I suspect there would be some philosophical or political reasons to resist an attraction to this candidate. They just wouldn't be good reasons.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 08:34 am
Miller wrote:

...Is that why the guy has at least 20 secret service agents guarding him?


Might have something to do with the KKKlintlers' history of killing people who get in the way of their ambitions....


Quote:

...Bang bang, she shot him down
bang bang, he hit the ground
bang bang, that awful sound
bang bang, Vince Foster hit the ground
da da da da da, da da da da da daaa.....


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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 09:01 am
one thing for gunga.. he's a consistent equal opportunity.... I don't know.... whatever he is...
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Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 11:00 am
Obama is a master politician, He already turned it around. He is getting all the press.

He took the attack and used it as a platform to speak on racism. It's Obamas show.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 12:32 pm
and it's not about race. it transcends race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 12:37 pm
It is about race. At least, to the vast majority of people, it is about race.

Cycloptichorn
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candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 12:57 pm
It's about race...and it's about race as much as it is about prejudice, and stereotypes, social/gender inequality in the 21st century in the so-called "greatest nation" in the world.

In the 21st century there are large segments of the American population who will not vote for a black because they are black, or will not vote for a woman because she's a woman.

There are equal numbers of blacks looking to vote Obama in because he's black.

This should not be an issue in America, but it is and i will continue to be.

If Obama becomes the president and, god forbid, does a poor job, it will, for many, be because he was black.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 01:00 pm
all this racial bullshit is going to put McCain in office so it's a moot point. IMO.
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candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 01:31 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
all this racial bullshit


I'm kind of surprised to hear this coming from you BPB....what is it that makes you call it bullshit?
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 01:35 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
all this racial bullshit is going to put McCain in office so it's a moot point. IMO.


But it is YOUR bullshit and the bullshit of the other miscreants who are attempting to perpetualize racial discord. Until you find Obama with a prostitute or a page, this is all you have. This may work on a threaded forum but it will not work in real life.

We have a war in Iraq and an economy on the verge of collapse and all you want to talk about is racial division.

It's time to Move on.
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candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 01:39 pm
I wouldn't categorize Bear as a miscreant....he's FAR from that....but I am curious why he has called it bullshit. I too would call it bullshit, but perhaps for different reasons.
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nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 01:40 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
and it's not about race. it transcends race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM


Wow. Over a half-million views and over 10,000 comments. That video was just added a few days ago. Wonder if that's a some kind of record for youtube.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 02:48 pm
candidone1 wrote:
I wouldn't categorize Bear as a miscreant....he's FAR from that....but I am curious why he has called it bullshit. I too would call it bullshit, but perhaps for different reasons.



roxxanne gave a typical response so considering the source let's do move on.

just because I think race has become a strategy in this election cycle and just because I think it has been and is being purposefully used by ALL the candidates to achieve their goals doesn't mean I don't recognize it as bullshit. the bullshit is in the denial, particularly in the Obama camp, that it wasn't an integral part of overall strategy from day one.

race shouldn't matter and that's no bullshit. to deny it does, unfortunate as it may be, is bullshit. perhaps one day we'll move past the bullshit. all we can do is try. Meanwhile this bullshit goes on.

Do I get points for number of uses of bullshit? Laughing
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