AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@Foxfyre,

This is Obama's position on gay rights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlY9HFRNUHs

Some of you who would degenerate Obama because he may have said something about marriage should be between and man and a woman have not addressed all the **** Bush said about our Constitution and Bill of Rights. You're all hypocrites of the worst kind! Kick Obama out because we don't agree with him on a few issues is not only ridiculous by insane!

Conservatives must march in lock-step with their leader like robots. "You're with us or against us!" Sound familiar? LOL

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

Where's any judgment? She's expressing a convinction that many don't share, but where is any denigration or defamation of anybody? What is so terrible about this comment that deserves her to get a zero from the judge that almost certainly cost her the win, or the trashing of her by the self-righteous leftwing bloggers and commentators who have presumed to characterize her in the most ugly ways. Something like you just did?

Her quote implicitly implies that gays and lesbians are lesser beings than straight folks. There's no difference between stating what she did, and saying that she was raised to believe that whites are superior to other races, that's just her opinion after all.

Her opinion denigrates and defames a whole class of people. And so does yours, Fox. Both of you fail to care about the effect of your beliefs, because you don't accept gays and lesbians as equals to yourself. That's just plain wrong. And she deserves the scorn she has received.

Cycloptichorn

I'm still waiting for you to say that President Obama did that then and that he deserves scorn, trashing, smearing, public ridicule and all sorts of ugly innuendo--perhaps does not deserve to be President of the United States--that he asked for it, that he does not accept gays and lesbians as equals to himself. You said you would if I proved that he agreed with Miss California. He does. I did prove it. So speak.

Do you not read replies that I make to your posts?

From two days ago -

http://able2know.org/topic/113196-434#post-3647494

I don't think Obama was asked the same question; but let's assume he was. Here's my response, from the post linked above:

Quote:

Miss CA was asked if she supported states legalizing Gay marriage. Is that the question that Obama was asked? Perhaps you could link to it before asserting that it was the 'exact same question.'

If it was the same question, and Obama answered the same way, then he too is a bigot. What, you think I won't criticize him?

YOU believe his is chocolate Jesus more than I do, Fox. He's just a man, and a fallible one.

I bet you guys hate it every time we criticize Obama.

Cycloptichorn

Well, you're ******* blown out of the water now, aren't you?

I never said I would suggest that Obama 'shouldn't be president' if he believes these things. I still think he was by far the best candidate for the job. You will also note that I didn't say that Mrs. Prejan shouldn't have won the stupid Miss USA pageant. I could give two shits about that idiotic event.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Her specific answer to the question was that she thought it was great that we lived in a country that had a choice. Even Obama hasn't been that liberal on this issue.

But you are accusing her of assigning gays and lesbians to second class status because she thinks marriage should be between a man and a woman. Obama says the exact same thing.

So come on. Be honest and fair. Let's hear you use the language about Obama that you have been using about Miss California. We wouldn't want to apply a double standard here would we?

To refresh your memory here's the two posts I made related to this. (There are lots and lots more though.)

http://able2know.org/topic/113196-434#post-3647503

http://able2know.org/topic/113196-436#post-3648204

2 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Her specific answer to the question was that she thought it was great that we lived in a country that had a choice. Even Obama hasn't been that liberal on this issue.

But you are accusing her of assigning gays and lesbians to second class status because she thinks marriage should be between a man and a woman. Obama says the exact same thing.

So come on. Be honest and fair. Let's hear you use the language about Obama that you have been using about Miss California. We wouldn't want to apply a double standard here would we?

To refresh your memory here's the two posts I made related to this. (There are lots and lots more though.)

http://able2know.org/topic/113196-434#post-3647503

http://able2know.org/topic/113196-436#post-3648204

Her answer said, specifically, that she was raised to believe that gays and lesbians didn't deserve the same rights as other people.

Obama's official position supports giving them the same rights as others. I don't see how you are equating the two; though it's obvious why you are doing it. It isn't working out very well for you though, is it; because I am perfectly willing to denounce Obama on this issue.

I will say, it's easy to see why Obama is an intelligent politician who gives a politician's answer on this issue; he takes a middle road to try and avoid offending anyone. Miss Prejan should have done the same, but she chose not to.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre, gay marriage has somehow become the new rallying cry or signature issue with liberals. Figure that one out. Anyone that doesn't agree with homosexual behavior is to be hated, marginalized, and thrown under the bus. So much for freedom of speech and opinion these days. That is not liberal America anymore. Behavior is now equal in their minds to color of skin, or whatever. If each and every person does not place their stamp of approval on their chosen lifestyle, we are the bigots. If I disagree with speeding on the highways, I guess I am now a bigot. Actually, the same applies to illegal immigration. We are now bigots if we believe in upholding immigration laws. Just ask O'Bill. And I thought he used to be somewhat conservative on some issues. The whole world has gone bonkers. If anybody can figure out their thinking process, let me know.

4 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Foxfyre, gay marriage has somehow become the new rallying cry or signature issue with liberals. Figure that one out.

Easy; it's the same as the old rallying cry: Equality. Over time we have struggled to ensure more and more equal application of our laws and rights to all members of society. This is merely an extension of the same battles for women's rights and racial rights - I'm sure you guys were, or would have been, against those as well.

Quote:

Anyone that doesn't agree with homosexual behavior is to be hated, marginalized, and thrown under the bus.

Pitied is the word you're looking for. But marginalized is a good one too, heck, even better. And you know why?

Because you and your kind have been marginalizing Gays and Lesbians for your whole life. Well, how do you ******* like it? How does it feel? Not so good, no? This is what you and your attitudes do to others. Reflect on this and get back to me.

Quote:

So much for freedom of speech and opinion these days. That is not liberal America anymore.

You're free to say whatever bigoted things you like; just don't expect people to keep their mouths shut when it comes to judging you, the same way you judge others.

Quote:

Behavior is now equal in their minds to color of skin, or whatever. If each and every person does not place their stamp of approval on their chosen lifestyle, we are the bigots.

People do not choose to be gay. Surely you realize this by now. This is the oldest canard in the book for discriminating against others.

Quote:

If I disagree with speeding on the highways, I guess I am now a bigot. Actually, the same applies to illegal immigration. We are now bigots if we believe in upholding immigration laws. Just ask O'Bill. And I thought he used to be somewhat conservative on some issues. The whole world has gone bonkers. If anybody can figure out their thinking process, let me know.

We have patiently explained the thinking process many times, Okie. You're just so unfamiliar with the entire concept of thinking, you can't keep up.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Her specific answer to the question was that she thought it was great that we lived in a country that had a choice. Even Obama hasn't been that liberal on this issue.

But you are accusing her of assigning gays and lesbians to second class status because she thinks marriage should be between a man and a woman. Obama says the exact same thing.

So come on. Be honest and fair. Let's hear you use the language about Obama that you have been using about Miss California. We wouldn't want to apply a double standard here would we?

To refresh your memory here's the two posts I made related to this. (There are lots and lots more though.)

http://able2know.org/topic/113196-434#post-3647503

http://able2know.org/topic/113196-436#post-3648204

Her answer said, specifically, that she was raised to believe that gays and lesbians didn't deserve the same rights as other people.

Obama's official position supports giving them the same rights as others. I don't see how you are equating the two; though it's obvious why you are doing it. It isn't working out very well for you though, is it; because I am perfectly willing to denounce Obama on this issue.

I will say, it's easy to see why Obama is an intelligent politician who gives a politician's answer on this issue; he takes a middle road to try and avoid offending anyone. Miss Prejan should have done the same, but she chose not to.

Cycloptichorn

Her answer said nothing of the sort. Her answer was that she thought it great that people had a choice. Again her specific answer:

Quote:

Miss California: Well, I think it's great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage, and you know what, in my country and in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody out there, but that's how I was raised and that's how I think it should be between a man and a woman.

She absolutely affirmed equal rights but went ahead and expressed her personal opinion. Where is any statement that said gays and lesbians should not have the same rights as anybody else? Point out the specific statement. She did go ahead and volunteer her opinion that marriage is a between a man and a woman, the exact same opinion held by the President. By the Vice President. By Hillary Clinton. And many many others.

Now Cyclop. You have a choice here. You can admit that you are so blindly partisan, a kool-ade drinker, and a totally committed disciple of the President that you are incapable of seeing the hypocrisy you are applying here. Or you can admit that if Obama is taking the middle road by saying flat out that marriage is between a man and a woman, then so was she. If she is a bigot denying rights to gays and lesbians, then so is he. And if it is okay for Obama to express his belief, spoken as a Christian, that he believes that marriage is between a man and a woman, and should be able to say that with impunity, then it is okay for her to say that too.

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Foxfyre, gay marriage has somehow become the new rallying cry or signature issue with liberals. Figure that one out. Anyone that doesn't agree with homosexual behavior is to be hated, marginalized, and thrown under the bus. So much for freedom of speech and opinion these days. That is not liberal America anymore. Behavior is now equal in their minds to color of skin, or whatever. If each and every person does not place their stamp of approval on their chosen lifestyle, we are the bigots. If I disagree with speeding on the highways, I guess I am now a bigot. Actually, the same applies to illegal immigration. We are now bigots if we believe in upholding immigration laws. Just ask O'Bill. And I thought he used to be somewhat conservative on some issues. The whole world has gone bonkers. If anybody can figure out their thinking process, let me know.

I know Okie. In previous elections the battle cry was abortion--if you are pro life you want to relegate women to second class citizenship, to slavery, etc. etc. etc. This year the rallying cry is gay marriage. Next time it will be something else.

The point I'm making is that it is only the Right or Conservatives or Republicans who are required to toe the PC line and who can be trashed, smeared, condemned, and punished if they do not. Those on the Left can have anything overlooked, forgiven, explained away, or accepted.

The hypocrisy is galling.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Yeah, the party of tolerance, the Democrats, that support killing their own unborn. The same party whose president yuks it up when a so-called comedian wishes Limbaugh dies and compares him to the 9/11 pilots. The country is sick, Foxfyre.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Foxfyre, gay marriage has somehow become the new rallying cry or signature issue with liberals.

more like people that don't just say this, but actually believe and practice it;

Quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

like free speech, american equality requires that we extend the same rights to all american citizens, not just the ones we approve of.

do you agree with that statement?

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

okie wrote:

Quote:
Anyone that doesn't agree with homosexual behavior is to be hated, marginalized, and thrown under the bus.

talk about having perfected the victim act.

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

... the Democrats, that support killing their own unborn.

unlike the republicans, who wait till they're 18, then have someone else kill them.

1 Reply

@DontTreadOnMe,

Men are created equal, but not behaviors, DTOM. If you can find gay marriage in the constitution, let me know.

2 Replies

@DontTreadOnMe,

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

okie wrote:

... the Democrats, that support killing their own unborn.

unlike the republicans, who wait till they're 18, then have someone else kill them.

You have no good answer for the accusation, do you, DTOM. Face it, the abortionists are really really compassionate. If thats your view of compassion, I want no part of your politics.

2 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Men are created equal, but not behaviors, DTOM. If you can find gay marriage in the constitution, let me know.

not mentioned specifically, but this is;

Quote:

from the 9th amendment

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

so unless you can show me where the constitution or the amendments specifically disallow gay marriage, i guess your just whistling up the chimney.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

okie wrote:

... the Democrats, that support killing their own unborn.

unlike the republicans, who wait till they're 18, then have someone else kill them.

You have no good answer for the accusation, do you, DTOM. Face it, the abortionists are really really compassionate. If thats your view of compassion, I want no part of your politics.

oh, was it an accusation? i took it as someone who didn't believe in the rights to personal freedom that the constitution guarantees.

in which case, you have the right to decide if you, personally do or do not have a child.

what you do not have, is the right to decide if someone else has a child.

that's how personal freedom works.

0 Replies

@DontTreadOnMe,

DontTreadonMe wrote:

free speech is free speech. either we all have it or we don't.

Thus ,we are all possessed of the right to freely criticize that speech we find abhorrent. I find all thar speech abhorent that was/is ctitical of Miss California, because she said she prefers marriges composed of one male and one female. And she found it abhorent too! Good for her.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

cycloptichorn wrote:

Her quote implicitly implies that gays and lesbians are lesser beings than straight folks. There's no difference between stating what she did, and saying that she was raised to believe that whites are superior to other races, that's just her opinion after all.

It implies no such thing. It implies only her personal preference.

However, "free speech is free speech," right? So I have a right to express my belief that gays and lesbians are disfunctional folks. Also, I have a right to express my belief that those folks who claim all conservatives are racists, are themselves racists.

1 Reply

Okie, I see you don't have the guts to respond to my last post to you. Lame.

Fox, I believe that all who would deny gays and lesbians equal rights are bigots. I have no problem with referring to Obama this way if that's the belief that he holds. Your protestations of hypocrisy are idiotic and ridiculous as I have made it quite clear that I would do this, over several posts now.

The truth is that we do not, contrary to Miss Prejan's stupid answer, live in a country where you can have either gay or straight marriage. We live in a country which allows one but does not allow the other. She didn't answer the question that was asked at all, but instead took the opportunity to remind everyone that heck, she was raised to believe that gays and lesbians are inferior to everyone else, that's just her opinion, what is everyone so upset about?

At the end of the day, more and more states will pass gay marriage laws and those politicians who oppose them - and those people, such as you bigots - will be more and more marginalized. It's no surprise that opposition to gay marriage is by far the strongest amongst oldsters such as yourselves. Luckily for all those who support equality for ALL, we are clearly winning the fight and your side is clearly losing. Soon it won't even be an issue any more, because you will have flat-out lost.

Then, when society doesn't disintegrate; when things go on just like they were before; will any of you have the guts to admit you were wrong? No, you will not. Instead you will carry this shameful attitude all the way to your graves, and good riddance, for that is where beliefs that some are inherently inferior based on their sexuality belong.

I'm done discussing this, because I know the two of you will never admit your inherent bigotry. You won't come right out and say exactly what it is you believe, because you know in your hearts that you are incorrect. I will, instead of pursuing this issue further, comfortably relax in the knowledge that your star is waning while mine is waxing. But I think you both should know that your bigotry makes you look like real assholes.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

ican711nm wrote:

cycloptichorn wrote:
Her quote implicitly implies that gays and lesbians are lesser beings than straight folks. There's no difference between stating what she did, and saying that she was raised to believe that whites are superior to other races, that's just her opinion after all.
It implies no such thing. It implies only her personal preference.

You are incorrect, but there's no surprise there.

Quote:

However, "free speech is free speech," right? So I have a right to express my belief that gays and lesbians are disfunctional folks. Also, I have a right to express my belief that those folks who claim conservatives are racists, are themselves racists.

You have the right to claim whatever you want, bigot. I would never try and strip that right from you. But you should not expect others to hold back from describing you accurately.

I become more and more convinced over time that the strongest voices against equality for gays and lesbians are those who questioned their own sexuality when younger, and took a firm stance against it in order to avoid having to face those questions. Your political leaders certainly have shown this to be true lately; wouldn't you agree?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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