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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 11:23 am
@parados,
Read again Parados. As usual you're comprehending less than half of what is actually said.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 11:31 am
@Foxfyre,
Gee, Foxie, you're giving parados for comprehending at least half? LOL
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 11:35 am
http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq289/LindaBee_2008/th_TEAPARTY.jpg

And meanwhile some of us who condemned President Bush and an irresponsible GOP Congress for their spendthrift ways and a President Bush and an irresponsible Democratic Congress for their spendthrift ways are as critical of President Obama's spendthrift ways.

What is frustrating, even incomprehensible in a way, is that many who condemned President Bush and an irresponsible GOP Congress for their fiscal irresponsibility, are now defending President Obama and a Democratic Congress for this:

Quote:
White House: Budget deficit to top $1.8 trillion, 4 times 2008's record
Andrew Taylor, Associated Press Writer
On Monday May 11, 2009, 11:55 am EDT

The deficit for the current budget year will rise by $89 billion to above $1.8 trillion -- about four times the record set just last year. The unprecedented red ink flows from the deep recession, the Wall Street bailout, the cost of President Barack Obama's economic stimulus bill, as well as a structural imbalance between what the government spends and what it takes in.

As the economy performs worse than expected, the deficit for the 2010 budget year beginning in October will worsen by $87 billion to $1.3 trillion, the White House says. The deterioration reflects lower tax revenues and higher costs for bank failures, unemployment benefits and food stamps.

For the current year, the government would borrow 46 cents for every dollar it takes to run the government under the administration's plan. In one of the few positive signs, the actual 2009 deficit is likely to be $250 billion less than predicted because Congress is unlikely to provide another $250 billion in financial bailout money.

The developments come as the White House completes the official release of its $3.6 trillion budget for 2010, adding detail to some of its tax proposals and ideas for producing health care savings. The White House budget is a recommendation to Congress that represents Obama's fiscal and policy vision for the next decade.

Annual deficits would never dip below $500 billion and would total $7.1 trillion over 2010-2019. Even those dismal figures rely on economic projections that are significantly more optimistic -- just a 1.2 percent decline in gross domestic product this year and a 3.2 percent growth rate for 2010 -- than those forecast by private sector economists and the Congressional Budget Office.

More here:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/White-House-Budget-deficit-to-apf-15199183.html?.v=8
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 12:04 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
And meanwhile some of us who condemned President Bush and an irresponsible GOP Congress for their spendthrift ways...

What a larf.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 12:10 pm
@joefromchicago,
I'd like to see "any" post by Foxie that supports this claim during all those Bush spending sprees?
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I'd like to see "any" post by Foxie that supports this claim during all those Bush spending sprees?

So would I, but it ain't gonna happen.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:19 pm
@joefromchicago,
I guess you forgot the last time--on this thread--that such was asked for and I complied in some detail which I believe you and I know C.I. commented on the post. But then selective memory is so convenient. . . .
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:29 pm
Another issue of concern for MACs is the gradual loss of our freedoms to political correctness that is gradually being made law of the land. Traditional values take a back seat to the mantra demanding acceptance for whatever is the PC issue of the day and requiring censure or punishment for any who do not comply. IMO, our right to hold and voice unpopular opinions is a freedom even more at risk than is the nation's solvency. We cannot sustain ourselves as a free and prosperous people without both.

I was a charter member of NOW in Kansas and have been a passionate feminist all my life. But I am ashamed and disgusted with NOW and most women's advocacy groups for their conduct over the last 16 years or so. They once championed the rights of women and would come to the defense of any woman falsely accused or treated unfairly because she was a woman.

All that began to change early in the Clinton administration until it was that only liberal women are worthy of advocacy and admiration. Any woman who accuses or challenges a liberal or who professes conservative beliefs can be trashed and condemned with impunity.

The latest victim in this phenomenon has been Miss California, and the efforts to smear and discredit her have been unrelenting:

Quote:
BEVERLY HILLS, Calif. (AP) - Officials of the Miss California USA pageant have strongly criticized titleholder Carrie Prejean (pray-ZHAN') but say it's not their decision whether she should be stripped of her crown.

Co-executive directors Keith Lewis and Shanna Moakler told a Beverly Hills press conference Monday that only Miss USA pageant owner Donald Trump can make that decision.

The 21-year-old San Diego native created controversy during the Miss USA pageant when she said she believes marriage should only be between a man and a woman.

The state pageant has been investigating whether she violated her contract by making public appearances with groups opposed to same-sex marriage. Prejean also failed to reveal that she once posed in her underwear.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9847DB81&show_article=1
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:31 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

I guess you forgot the last time--on this thread--that such was asked for and I complied in some detail which I believe you and I know C.I. commented on the post. But then selective memory is so convenient. . . .


You did link to a few things, but c'mon. Don't try and blow smoke up our asses, Fox. We all saw you defending the Admin. for years on a wide variety of topics. Any criticisms of spending you and other Conservatives put forth were mild at best. 'Condemnation' is hardly the word to use for it.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:33 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

All that began to change early in the Clinton administration until it was that only liberal women are worthy of advocacy and admiration. Any woman who accuses or challenges a liberal or who professes conservative beliefs can be trashed and condemned with impunity.

The latest victim in this phenomenon has been Miss California, and the efforts to smear and discredit her have been unrelenting:


Why is she allowed to express her opinion, but we are not allowed to express ours, re: her bigotry?

You seem to think that Gays should be denied marriage with impunity, but you never seem to connect that to your outrage. Funny how that works.

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:35 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Depends on your definition of condemnation I guess. Did I use the hateful words that liberals often use? No. But I don't use those words in my criticism of Obama or his administration either. You won't find anywhere on A2K that I have defended President Bush or anybody else on irresponsible spending.

I have praised President Bush for those things he has gotten right just as I have President Obama. Unlike some, I don't have to hate somebody or think they are wrong about everything in order to be wrong about something.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:37 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

All that began to change early in the Clinton administration until it was that only liberal women are worthy of advocacy and admiration. Any woman who accuses or challenges a liberal or who professes conservative beliefs can be trashed and condemned with impunity.

The latest victim in this phenomenon has been Miss California, and the efforts to smear and discredit her have been unrelenting:


Why is she allowed to express her opinion, but we are not allowed to express ours, re: her bigotry?

You seem to think that Gays should be denied marriage with impunity, but you never seem to connect that to your outrage. Funny how that works.

Cycloptichorn


Is she bigoted any more than you? Had she said that those advocating gay marriage were trying to force vile and unacceptable behavior down the throat of others, she would have been off base and criticsm would have been justified. She didn't do that. She was asked a question and she responded truthfully that she was raised to believe that marriage was between a man and a woman.

So where is your outrage and condemnation and accusations of bigotry leveled at President Obama who said the very same thing when he was asked the same question?

In a 2007 Chicago Tribune interview, Obama said, “I’m a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue … my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.”

You don't see a double standard at play here? You don't think you have just applied a double standard?
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:48 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:

Is she bigoted any more than you?


**** yes she is, Fox. By definition. She is bigoted towards Gays. What kind of question is that?

Quote:
She was asked a question and she responded truthfully that she was raised to believe that marriage was between a man and a woman.


Then she was raised to be a bigot. There's no difference between saying this and saying 'I was raised to believe that whites are superior to other races.'

Quote:


So where is your outrage and condemnation and accusations of bigotry leveled at President Obama who said the very same thing when he was asked the same question?

In a 2007 Chicago Tribune interview, Obama said, “I’m a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue … my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.”

You don't see a double standard at play here? You don't think you have just applied a double standard?


She could have easily responded by saying, 'I think that the people of each state should have the right to set the rules that their populace supports.' And left it at that. But she went out of her way to jab the thought of gay marriage. Not cool.

Miss CA was asked if she supported states legalizing Gay marriage. Is that the question that Obama was asked? Perhaps you could link to it before asserting that it was the 'exact same question.'

If it was the same question, and Obama answered the same way, then he too is a bigot. What, you think I won't criticize him?

YOU believe his is chocolate Jesus more than I do, Fox. He's just a man, and a fallible one.

I bet you guys hate it every time we criticize Obama.

Cycloptichorn
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:53 pm
@Foxfyre,
I understood it Fox.

I am just curious how many GOP congresspeople you can name that were in Congress in 1996 but not in 2001 because they had self imposed limits.

Hint- Senators agreed to 12 years. Only 10 House GOP from 1994 agreed to stay for no more than 6 years. Of those 10, how many actually followed through on their promise and didn't run?








Your claim that they were not the same GOP because of self-imposed term limits is far from the facts of the matter.

You will find the full copy of the article
Term Limits: Pledges come home to roost" here
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/phillybri/114625443496180654/

It lists 6 GOP class of 1994 that didn't run. Tillie Fowler later upheld her pledge when attack adds calling her Slick Tillie appeared. So.. there were 7 that left Congress in 2001 because of the term limits. Of those 7 Coburn was latter elected as Senator.

Wow.. That still only leaves us a grand total of 6. Not exactly a large sea change in the GOP composition, is it Fox?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:54 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Well here ya go. Let's hear you criticize him for being bigoted against gays. (Also Vice President Biden for that matter). You think its great that he is POTUS. All she aspired to be was Miss USA.



Quote:
DEMOCRATS
Barack Obama
Opposes same-sex marriage, but also opposes a constitutional ban. Says he would repeal the Defense of Marriage Act and voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment. As stated on the Obama campaign Web site, he supports full civil unions that "give same-sex couples equal legal rights and privileges as married couples, including the right to assist their loved ones in times of emergency as well as equal health insurance, employment benefits, and property and adoption rights."

Joe Biden
Opposes same-sex marriage. Voted against a constitutional amendment prohibiting same-sex marriage. Supports civil unions. Says he believes legal recognition should not be denied to same-sex couples.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.samesexmarriage.html
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:58 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

I guess you forgot the last time--on this thread--that such was asked for and I complied in some detail which I believe you and I know C.I. commented on the post.

If by "in some detail" you mean "with no detail whatsoever," then I agree. Here's what you said:

Foxfyre, on April 10, wrote:
Then perhaps if your memory is as good as you apparently expect mine should be, you should be able to know exactly when and where you posted whatever. Perhaps you could list those compliments that you have bestowed on President George W. Bush. You'll probably need to go back however many years you've been on A2K of course. I joined in 2004 I think. I would be impressed if you provided the links. I prefaced my remark that I don't know exactly when and where I made my remarks. I just know what my opinion has pretty much consistently been.


Far from providing links to previous statements "in detail," you admitted that you had no idea when and where you made your remarks.

There was, however, one post where you attempted to prove that you had previously criticized Bush's policies. The problem, though, is that all but one of those examples was drawn from this thread. In other words, you could only come up with one contemporaneous criticism of Bush, and that related to amnesty for illegal aliens, not any spending bill or fiscal policy.

Foxfyre wrote:
But then selective memory is so convenient. . . .

You'll be pleased to know that I've submitted this statement for recognition in the category of "most ironic comment of the year."
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 02:02 pm
@Foxfyre,
You stated this Fox....
Quote:
By the time George 43 was elected, however, many of that GOP freshman class had kept their pledges to impose their own term limits and didn't run for re-election, and those coming in were not the fiscal conservatives Clinton had to work with.


The GOP freshman class of 1994 was 54 Congressmen..

Of those 54, only 7 left Congress in 2000 because of self imposed limits.
7 out of 54 is NOT many in my book. Why is it "many" in yours Fox?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 02:02 pm
@joefromchicago,
I can't help it if I remember and you don't Joe. And I don't intend to go hunting for the links every time you or somebody else decides to ask for them. Once should be enough. Don't you have petunias to repot or something? Surely you have something better to do than silly ad hominem posts.

Or why don't you engage Parados. He desperately needs to natter about something. I don't want to play that game, but thank you very much.
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 02:13 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
And meanwhile some of us who condemned President Bush and an irresponsible GOP Congress for their spendthrift ways...


Foxfyre wrote:
Depends on your definition of condemnation I guess. Did I use the hateful words that liberals often use? No. But I don't use those words in my criticism of Obama or his administration either. You won't find anywhere on A2K that I have defended President Bush or anybody else on irresponsible spending.


You condemned the Bush admin and the GOP Congress by not defending them on irresponsible spending?

Commendable.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 02:16 pm
@old europe,
May I suggest that you join Parados and Joe in their nattering game? That would be great.
 

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