Re: OMG! Is It Possible?
kuvasz wrote:engineer wrote:Magginkat wrote:Hey Kuvasz! I agree! The thing that has irritated me most is the fact that no one can say anything about Obama without being called a racist.
I don't like that big smiling con artist....didn't like him the first time I saw him and haven't seen anything to change my mind since then. I have seen lots of things that convince me that I was right about him all along.
Several people have posted something like this statement and I think you need to back it up.
There is a solid contingent here that believes Obama is a "snake oil salesman." Fine. I've never seen one called a racist for that belief. I've seen Obama loyalists rebutting that argument with a list of his accomplishments or his positions, etc. I've seen some people post racist comments. Those people should be expected to be called a racist. That is what we call people who make racist comments. Your comments don't seem racist to me, they seem in line with the typical political debate here. If your supposition that "no one can say anything about Obama without being called a racist" is true, you should easily be able to show people calling you that. Any examples?
i think you misunderstand the scepticism i have about the man, i don't care if he helped pass bills for community service in the neighborhoods of chicago because he is not running for mayor of america. what i don't like can not be debated with events or accomplishments because i do not agree upon his perception of reality. the guy is a moderate corporatist who happens to be black, and i don't consider it racist to assume that if he shared the same pigmentation as another moderate corporatist, like say joe biden, who happens to be white, senator obama would have about as many delegates as biden, meaning none. and that is essentially what ms ferraro said and she was excoriated as if she had just birthed bull connor and 20 police dogs by the press.
i chalk up obamamania as yet another outbreak of american consumer mass delusion where once again people mistake the symbolic metaphor for the actual fact it represents.
OBAMA = CHANGE to the obama supporters, because that is what he wants them to believe, but under the surface its the same old thing, were he employs the language of moderation that supports the economic power balance to the direction of the wealthy and connected while throwing breadcrumbs to the rest.
No, I don't misunderstand. You have the same position a lot of people here, both Republicans and Democrats, have concerning Obama. I disagree with your comparison to Biden (who was my favorite). Biden does not have Obama's charisma, so he didn't get past go. There are several reasons why I think the skin color argument falls flat.
Money: Obama raised a ton of money before he became a national sensation. He raised it based on his his message and his charisma. If he were white, he probably would have raised more. In the early stages of this process, his color was routinely mentioned as a negative. Biden wasn't able to put up those kind of numbers, so he wasn't able to compete.
Demographics: Obama brings in the young vote, not because of his skin color, but because of his message and once again, his charisma. Clinton has a lock on the largest demographic in the Democratic party, older white women. Obama has countered, not by taking the black vote (though he does that), but by taking every other category. How has his skin color helped him in Utah or Alaska? You can argue that his skin helps him with black voters, but at the start of the election, Clinton was polling even with him there. Remember all the "is Obama black enough" chatter? Did his skin get suddenly darker?
Party machinery: The Clintons owned the traditional party infrastructure at the start of this campaign (and still have a large advantage there in many places). All the mayors, state legislatures, union bosses, etc at every level were all ready to get Clinton to the next stage. She had a good number of super delegates wrapped up on day one. Obama has run as an outsider just like Biden, Edwards and Dodd did. Obama's color did not get him an in with the Democratic machinery and there was black resistance to him since the Clinton's were so beloved in that community.
Quality of Campaign: The Clintons have run a
truly awful campaign. They have insulted the black community and lost it to Obama. They have wasted money like mad, twisted truth like a pretzel, ran slanderous ads, etc. Win or lose, her campaign will be studied as an example of a disastrous campaign for years to come. Obama's campaign has been the opposite. Well run, on message, free of obvious gaffs. Where Clinton choses managers based on loyalty, Obama has assembled a team of experts from across the political and idealogical spectrum. The Clintons focus on "microtrends", tailoring a message for each little community, telling them what they want to hear. Obama's team just stays on message. Once again, Obama's skin color doesn't help him here, but his brains and the loyalty he inspires in his followers do.
So to me, the argument that Obama has succeeded because he is black doesn't stand up against even cursory observation. The problem I have is with people who toss out that argument "he'd be no where if he was white" and then fail to back it up with even the slightest of argument. If there is no rational behind the argument, it must be irrational. Much like the talking head who implied Clinton is where she is because her husband cheated on her, the Obama is black argument takes a little, tiny grain of sand and assume it supports the entire castle.
I'm completely fine with the argument that you don't like his message, his style, his experience, etc. But if you think his success is only because of his skin color, you will have to make a better argument than what has been presented so far. And those who say that "any time someone says they don't like Obama, they are called a racist", please prove that. Show me where someone criticizes Obama
without mentioning race only to be called a racist. I think with few exceptions that the A2K community is better than that.
