Europe's Anti-American Obsession

Anyway did anyone see the Bush Brown press conference? That's one European who loves Mr Bush. But is he a true European? He's Scottish.

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My humble view is this.
Delapidated, damaged, detrimental detoriation
is in power.
Whether you live/struggle to survive/vegitate in Europe or in USA.
Forget it

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A simple clarfication please.
Am I obsessed to post so many critical views about Hypocracy?( I mean the rotten systems we all endure)
I live in Europe.
try to be civil and HUMAN

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I have never experienced in any of the European countries ( I know 11 Eu)where the banal Ani-American obsession prevails.
I had endured the intellectual critical views of American system..

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Rama, you are mostly correct about the USA. But you are wildly wrong about Israel and the ME in general.

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I stand for correction.
But my views are my views born out of my experience.
I will correct my views if other's views are as critical as that of mine.
Thanks
Rama

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Advocate wrote:

Rama, you are mostly correct about the USA. But you are wildly wrong about Israel and the ME in general.

A revealing admission - contemptable, but interesting. Have you considered aliya?

Surely you will admit that we are at least a useful source of some good things for your true homeland -- security guarantees against hostile neighbors and a built in Security Council veto for dealing with a hostile world. Then, of course there are the annual subsidies, the free military spending credits for the IDF, special trade status that gives Israeli goods & services the same status as those manufactured or sourced from here (but interestingly, no reciprocal rights) - and of course an easy, fertile ground for government and industrial espionage. (Though, happily, Jonathan Pollard will still die in prision.)

When are you leaving?

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georgeob1 wrote:

Advocate wrote:
Rama, you are mostly correct about the USA. But you are wildly wrong about Israel and the ME in general.

A revealing admission - contemptable [SIC], but interesting. Have you considered aliya?

Surely you will admit that we are at least a useful source of some good things for your true homeland -- security guarantees against hostile neighbors and a built in Security Council veto for dealing with a hostile world. Then, of course there are the annual subsidies, the free military spending credits for the IDF, special trade status that gives Israeli goods & services the same status as those manufactured or sourced from here (but interestingly, no reciprocal rights) - and of course an easy, fertile ground for government and industrial espionage. (Though, happily, Jonathan Pollard will still die in prision.)

When are you leaving?

It is amazing what you got out of my brief statement. Maybe your rambling is brought on by dementia.

Rama shares your views on Israel, which are wholly biased and wrong.

I differ with some of policies in the USA just as you do. A couple of our ventures were beyond being merely criminal. For instance, our actions in the wars in Nam and Iraq, into which we were lied, were Hitlerian. We killed over three million in Nam and did incalculable damage. And we are still engaged in killing and destroying in Iraq, with no end in sight.

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And yet, in spite of that sensitivity to the unanticipated or merely thoughtless consequences of the actions of your 'own country', you reflexively ignore far less justifiable, and often worse, deeds on the part of Israel. I really can't understand how you can simultaneously hold these views - they spring from utterly incompatible fundamental principles. Hence my suggestion above that there are other, unstated, fundamental principles involved.

And when challenged on these or related points, you immediately resort to to nasty little attempts at put-downs - instead of dealing with the issue. This is but a mean-spirited, contemptible (how's that?), little attempt to distract -- I'm surprised to see that you think it might work. It is a weak device that casts more of a shadow on you than those to whom it is addressed.

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George, it is obvious you are more interested in sliming me than dealing with the facts.

What you say about Israel is nonsense. Israel has done nothing more than defend itself and, when appropriate, retaliate. Time and again it has begged the Pals to sit down and reach a reasonable accord (that is short of things that would destroy Israel). When I and others point out such things, you act oblivious and continue to slime Israel and its defenders.

BTW, this is not a ME thread, and it is interesting that you use it to slime Israel. That is contemptible.

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George, in view of your intense dislike of our country's support of Israel, I have a question for you. When are you leaving?

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Advocate wrote:

BTW, this is not a ME thread, and it is interesting that you use it to slime Israel. That is contemptible.

Then why did you introduce the subject in your dialogue with Rama???
Why have you used it to slime the United States?

(sometimes I get the impression that you're not very bright.)

Advocate wrote:

George, in view of your intense dislike of our country's support of Israel, I have a question for you. When are you leaving?

Sigh ! Yet another childish attempt to distract.

Perhaps a Freudian slip here?? Do you regard Israel as part of the United States? Do you believe that support for Israel is still widespread in this country?? -- that is, apart from members of Congress who believe Aipac has them by the balls, Zionists, and loonie evangelicals.

You never answered my question about Aliya.

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George, are you completely dense? I didn't introduce the subject of Israel. I merely mentioned to Rama that I agree with his comments regarding the USA, but not with those on the ME and Israel. You than went into a crazy tirade against Israel and its supporters.

I state my disagreements with certain policies of our leaders. This isn't sliming our country. I hope my statements are constructive. You disagree with some policies of our leaders; thus, based on your thinking, you are sliming our country.

But you hate the very existence of Israel and its supporters. You never have a good word to say about them, and are always distorting the facts in the ME conflict. I see a great deal of bias in you.

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Advocate wrote:

George, are you completely dense? I didn't introduce the subject of Israel. I merely mentioned to Rama that I agree with his comments regarding the USA, but not with those on the ME and Israel. You than went into a crazy tirade against Israel and its supporters.

I state my disagreements with certain policies of our leaders. This isn't sliming our country. I hope my statements are constructive. You disagree with some policies of our leaders; thus, based on your thinking, you are sliming our country.

But you hate the very existence of Israel and its supporters. You never have a good word to say about them, and are always distorting the facts in the ME conflict. I see a great deal of bias in you.

georgeob1 wrote:

(sometimes I get the impression that you're not very bright.)

I really can underline that. And after your above response ... I even could get other ideas Laughing

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Walter, I have noticed that you, like George, are very anti-Israel and, most likely, anti-Jewish. So I fully understand your vilification of people who support Israel.

You claim to be a teacher. But, narrow-minded bigot that you are, I pity your pupils.

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Advocate wrote:

You claim to be a teacher.

No. Never. Neither here nor elsewhere. And that since .... 53 years, when I first set a foot in a school.

(Your first part of above response is even more ridiculous.)

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Advocate wrote:

Walter, I have noticed that you, like George, are very anti-Israel and, most likely, anti-Jewish. So I fully understand your vilification of people who support Israel.

You claim to be a teacher. But, narrow-minded bigot that you are, I pity your pupils.

You are rather free in casting these broad categorical labels at groups (our government, for example) which do things you don't like, or merely individual people who disagree with you on some fairly specific matter.

I argue that Israel entered into a lasting pattern of injustice when it attempted to retain the West Bank territory it took in 1967, while, at the same time, driving out its population. You respond saying that I must therefore hate Israel and now all Jews. Walter disagrees with you on similar matters, and now he is a "narrow-minded bigot".

In this unfortunate and very hypocritical behavior you are making yourself a perfect model for the very intolerance and bigotry of which you so blithely accuse others. Worse, I think you aren't even aware of it.

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You and Walter posited that I am not very bright. Since you two have neither the facts nor a valid argument, you deign to attack me personally.

You are lying when you say that Israel is driving out the Pals. The Pal population has soared since the '67 War. You repeatedly said that Israel started that war. This is a sure sign of your dishonesty and bias inasmuch you well know that Egypt's blockade of an Israeli port constituted the act of war.

BTW, first tell me what is your view of Aliya?

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I didn't "posit" anything. I said "I sometimes get the impression that..." There's a difference.

I have expressly noted the different demographics of the Palestinians and Israelis, noting that it is in Israel's interest now to find an accomodation, and that time is not on their side in this. That Israel has excluded Palestinians from designated settlement areas in the heights overlooking the Jordan, around Jerusalem and in other areas of the Former West Bank - some previously occupied by Palestinians - is exceedingly well-documented. You can check the facts for yourself.

I am weary of your semantical games with respect to the start of the 1967 war, and see no point in continuing that aspect of the conversation. We both know the key facts including Israel's earlier refusal to accept and Egypt's final expulsion of UN observers from the temporaty demarcation line in the Siani (a residue of Israel's earlier 1956 invasion); Nasser's closure of the straits of Tiran; and Israel's pre-planned, well-rehearsed pre-emptive strike on Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. I have not lied or deceived in any way. That's your schtick.

I have no "view of Aliya", it doesn't involve me. What is yours?

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More lies! There were no Israeli preemptive attacks on Jordan and Syria.

Since you are not willing to give me your views on Aliya, I'll take a pass on it.

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Europe's Anti-American Obsession

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