Francis wrote:Well, Engineer, I'd readily comment on this suject.
As a long term observer of the American society, having been in the US many times, I would say both of the above articles are sullied by clichés and prejudices from the past.
In both countries, a small fraction of the population has an "anti" foreigner reaction, an old human reaction to aliens, kind of atavic fear.
As I know Jean François Revel, I can tell he is the stereotype of the elites, whose pet peeves (things you like to hate) is precisely to blame the US for any kind of wrong stuff going on in the world.
Interesting. No doubt that J.F. Revel has to some extent made a career out of his critiques of European "Anti Americanism". However there is an element of truth in his arguments. Perhaps, as you suggest, these may be features of decades now past (Images of JP Sartre's oft repeated praises of Leninism - even amidst the repressions in Hungary and (then) Czechoslovakia come to mind), however I have a hard time convincing myself that is true, particularly as I read bits of contemporary European (mostly British, French, & German) political commentary.
Francis wrote:On the other hand, Americans, often lacking of humor, take seriously any blame Europeans put on them, even if the jocular part is obvious.
Here I agree with you. We have an annoying hypersensitivity to criticism that probably arises out of some long-standing delusions about our exceptionalism - something that is real but greatly exaggerated in American propaganda. This is a fault I will readily acknowledge of myself as well (but you already know that).
Francis wrote:At least for the French, a majority of them, while criticizing some of the American moves, are pretty aware of what happens in American society, and, as so, they can more easily judge and compare.
Just an example, taken from Ajami's article:
78% of the French think that the US are a religious country. Besides, I have that from other sources, 80% of the Americans consider themselves as religious.
My own experience of the US tells me so.
So the French seem closer than the Jordanians, as only 10% of them consider the US as a religious country.
Somehow I don't find this anecdote particularly persuasive. Do you really believe that the majority of French have a better and more accurate understanding of America than do their American counterparts of the French? Here I am referring to the reality beyond the ubiquitous media products whose very superficial effects are nearly universal. I am also trying to distinguish between the illusions of broad understanding that prevail in cosmopolitan places like New York and Paris, and the reality of it which, even there, is usually much less. Do we - either of us - really understand each other??
Francis wrote:Many of the arguments uttered by either side are often baseless when compared to reality.
Even though not many Europeans followed the US in Irak's "foolishness", many Europeans participated in the first Irak's war, which many Americans seem oblivious of.
In today's Afganhistan, Germans and French work hand in hand with the Americans.
My American friends seem surprised when I tell them that.
I think U.S awareness of, for example, France's role in the first Gulf War may be greater than you think. As you know I was fortunate enough in the years preceeding this event to have a great deal of contact with the French forces in the Northern Arabian Sea, so perhaps I am biased.
In Afghanistan the political restrictions imposed on German forces severely restrict opportunities for them to work at all (much less "hand-to hand") with the American forces. That is an ongoing problem, and a source of frustration. More importantly it is merely one example among many, spread over decades.
Francis wrote:And again, when I see the way I'm welcome in the US, I wonder where this widespread anti-European, anti-French feeling is hidden...
Clearly Francis it is because you are such an engaging guy ! :wink: More to the point, the reality of an individual person - French, American, German, British - quickly transcends the stereotypes that may still infect us all.
In all my travels I have repeatedly learned that, when one really connects with people in almost any country, our common humanity quickly comes to the fore and the different cultural expressions of it are usually quickly bridged. Despite this observable fact, the history of our various tribes and national groups is full of protracted and bloody conflict. That is the hell of it.
