The UN, US and Iraq IV

Ehem, Italgato, perhaps you didn't read the various sources (US-papers and news agencies report the same, btw): the Turkish Parliament has voted "pro"! Only the Iraquian Council doesn't want the Turkish army.

So, why are you still pessimistic?

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Timber, you wrote

Quote:

What we know now is that there is much we do not know, and that much of what we do know indicates our original assumptions will be borne out.

Sounds like an argument to me for quitting now, while your're ahead, before any facts are uncovered that challenge the original assumption. And cheaper too. Very Happy

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PDiddie -- the usual 30% find the blanket still comforting...well, until they run out of air.

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Lightwizard wrote:

PDiddie -- the usual 30% find the blanket still comforting...well, until they run out of air.

I wonder if this 30% are also the believers in Orange Alert's, duct tape and plastic wrap, or is that the remaining 70%, or are all 100% into the Alert's, tape and wrap comfort?

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

Sounds like an argument to me for quitting now, while your're ahead, before any facts are uncovered that challenge the original assumption. And cheaper too.

Easy answers are rarely good answers. And cheapness is rarely the hallmark of quality. "Cheap and easy" is more a matter of immediate convenience and disregard of eventual consequence than of ongoing diligence and continuing prudence ... which much explains its popularity on The Left, no doubt. Twisted Evil

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HEY--YOOOOOOO
You are correct, sir!

<Ed MacMahon response seemed appropriate.>

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The Turkish troop conundrum is difficult to understand.

Let me see if I've got it. The US wanted to launch a 2 pronged invasion, in the north using Turkey as the springboard.

Turkey didn't want an American liberation of Kurdistan giving their own Kurds ideas. So they said no to an invasion from the north, much to the displeasure of Bush.

But the invasion went ahead anyway. Saddam went away - gone but not forgotten - and the new American/Iraqi government (sort of) takes over.

Now the Turks agree to send troops, but the American controlled administration in Baghdad doesn't want them. Mr Bush is happy? Everyone else is confused.

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Mr. Hinteler: I am sorry but I am not keeping up today. I am behind on the news. As I said, and apparently you did not read- My morning newspaper said that the Parliament had not voted yet. When I get word that it has approved the troops, I will then believe it--not before.

The reason I am pessimistic is,as I told you, and you seem to have ignored, the wish of the Turkish Executive Branch is NOT ALWAYS approved by the Parliament--See March 1st- 2003 in Turkey when the Parliament DISAPPROVED the invasion of US troops from thier soil.

AS I SAID, I will welcome the utilization of Turkish Troops in Iraq. They are good troops, they are Muslims and they will not take any guff from the mobster Iraqis. The North Koreans discovered that the Turks were not to be trifled with in 1951-52.

I am willing to bet that the sections of Iraq that the Turks patrol will be pacified very quickly.

I am also curious about the comment made with regard to our leadership not being happy with the addition of Turkish troops in Baghdad.

Does anyone have any reliable sources for that quote?

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The final March Turkish Parliament vote, which effectively denied the US its hoped-for Northern Option, was actually numerically in US favor, though of insufficient majority to rescind the previous, and close, negative vote. The vote today was a nearly 2-to-1 assent. Chalabi and crew object to any foreign additions to the forces occupying Iraq, but have no say in the matter. Likely, the Turkish contingent will be somewhere between 5K and 10K troops, and likely will be deployed in Western and/or Southern Iraq, well away from the predominately Kurdish North.

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

Now the Turks agree to send troops, but the American controlled administration in Baghdad doesn't want them. Mr Bush is happy? Everyone else is confused.

Perhaps the "Iraq Stabilisation Group" has started its work already?

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Lightwizard is, of course, entitled to his opinion concering President Ronald Reagan. I do not know what Lightwizard's expertise is but I do know that professional Historians do not agree with him.

Lightwizard may be surprised to discover that according to the C-Span Survey of Presidential Leadership

http"//www.americanpresidents.org/survey.historians/overall.asp

that:

Ronald Reagan is ranked 11th overall by PROFESSIONAL PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIANS.

Bill Clinton is ranked 21st

George H. W. Bush is ranked 20th

I do not wish to disabuse Lightwizard.

I merely wish to point out that there are others, presumably with better expetise than Lightwizard, that simply do not agree with Lightwizard's characterization of President Ronald Reagan.

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Quote:

Turkish Parliament Agrees to Send Peacekeepers to Iraq

358 to 183

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If WMD were to be found in Iraq, in anything like the numbers or concentrations we were led to believe existed- in fact were the justification for launching the invasion in the first place- we would have found them by now.

Hans Blix has already summed up it up. "First they (ISG) were looking for WMD, then WMD programmes, maybe they will find some documents"

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timberlandko wrote:

The final March Turkish Parliament vote, which effectively denied the US its hoped-for Northern Option, was actually numerically in US favor, though of insufficient majority to rescind the previous, and close, negative vote. The vote today was a nearly 2-to-1 assent. Chalabi and crew object to any foreign additions to the forces occupying Iraq, but have no say in the matter. Likely, the Turkish contingent will be somewhere between 5K and 10K troops, and likely will be deployed in Western and/or Southern Iraq, well away from the predominately Kurdish North.

The government motion allows for an unspecified number of troops to be deployed in Iraq for one year - with the details to be left to Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his ministers.

Turkey is the first country to be affected by developments in Iraq, both negative and positive... We cannot just stand by and watch what is happening there," Cicek said. He underlined that a military involvement will give Turkey a say in future developments not only in Iraq, but in the whole region and will help the country in its struggle against Kurdish rebels, many of whom are believed to be in hiding in northern Iraq.

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timberlandko wrote:

Quote:
Turkish Parliament Agrees to Send Peacekeepers to Iraq

358 to 183

Thanks timber - but my BBC quote didn't say anything else.

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Italgato wrote:

I am also curious about the comment made with regard to our leadership not being happy with the addition of Turkish troops in Baghdad.

Does anyone have any reliable sources for that quote?

Obviously my European quotes were not reliable.

Here's an Australian:
Iraq rejects Turkish troop deployment
Iraq's interim foreign minister has dismissed the Turkish parliament's approval of a deployment of troops in Iraq.

Speaking after the Turkish vote, Hoshyar Zebari from the US-installed Iraqi Governing Council, says Turkish troops were not welcome and would only complicate the security situation on the ground.

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So is that all it amounts to? Just 155 Turkish troops into Iraq?

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I must express my thanks to Mr. Timberlandko and Mr. Hinteler for supplying the facts.

I hope that they will understand that the Turkish parliament's refusal on March 1st to allow the USA to invade from the North soured me on the intentions of the Turkish Parliament to really help the USA.

I am very happy to hear that the Turks( 5 to 10 thousand of them will be patrolling the South( the Shiites) and the West. They will, I am sure, do a good job. This may very well be the start of the addition of many more troops to help the USA, the British and the Poles.

A plus for the US/British/Polish forces in Iraq.

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******dammitt

Dosh anyone have any clue what 358 minush 183 is theesh days?

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Italgato wrote:

I must express my thanks to Mr. Timberlandko and Mr. Hinteler for supplying the facts.
[...]
A plus for the US/British/Polish forces in Iraq.

It was a pleasure.

Well, you might have forgotten that there really is a multi-national army in Iraq:
1,640 Ukrainian troops, 500 from Bulgaria, several hundred from Hungary, 150 from Romania and Latvia, and 85 respectively from Slovakia and Lithuania came in Auguast, additionally to the Danish, Dutch, Australian, Spanish ....

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The UN, US and Iraq IV

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