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The UN, US and Iraq IV

Forums: Politics, Iraq
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 07:17 am
"You would think that the number of people that are trying to leave Cuba might be an indicator of the living conditions there."

I like to compare that number with the number of Americans who try to get into Cuba for research and tourism and who are prevented by the authoritarian...

government...

of...

the....

United States!
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 07:35 am
Quote:
In 12 years, the UN inspectors were unable to find anything and were repeatedly misled, lied to, and misdirected. What was going to change in 2 weeks?


I think Blix wanted a bit more than 2 weeks. But 2 weeks or 2 months there's a simple answer : The Weather.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 10:05 am
..Tartarin

Even in the coldest times of cold war, our government "allowed" us to visit the GDR - although, they didn't want everybody.

I really don't know of any country in the ... how was it called by Itac .., oh, it was McGentrix... Western Hemisphere, which forbids its citizen to travel.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 10:14 am
I am not sure those in East Berlin that died trying to get to West Berlin share your optimism Walt.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 10:20 am
Well, certainly not only those in Berlin (capital of the GDR), the other parts of the GDR, Warsaw Pact states etc.

So I verify my above named "Western Hemisphere" to .... well, to what? Since 1989 even the just mentioned can travel when and whereto they like.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 10:27 am
Sure they can. Now. Since the US helped open the borders.

Citizens of Cuba, however, still lack the freedom you now enjoy. That is the point I was making.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 10:29 am
Well, so it was the US .. I should have known that.

And any US-American citizen can go as long and when she/he wishes to Cuba?

That's good as well that my old info is wrong!!!
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 10:34 am
Walter, Many Americans are visiting Cuba by way of Canada or Mexico. Wink
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 10:34 am
As a matter of fact, I received a travel brochure for the first time that included Cuba. Wink
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 10:36 am
It is odd, Walt, and is often questioned legally and by irate people who believe (rightly, I think) that no US citizen should be prevented by their own government from travelling. Leave that to those nations which want to ban visitors. The reason, of course, is the political pressure from Cuban exiles living in the US. Icky poo.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 10:36 am
Quote:
Individuals subject to US law traveling on a "fully hosted" basis can travel without a specific license so long as they do not spend any funds of their own while in Cuba.

...

Qualified Travel Service Providers Referring to travel agencies and tour operators, "It is possible to provide travel services to US persons legally able to travel to Cuba for family visits, professional research, or news gathering," says Michael Krinsky, a partner in the law firm of Rabinowitz, Boudin, Standard, Krinsky and Lieberman, which represents the Cuban government in the United States. US travel agencies can also provide services to third countries, from where a traveler makes his or her own arrangements for travel to and within Cuba. They may also be able to provide services, such as travel arrangements to Jamaica, where a component includes an excursion to Cuba. Treasury Department regulations do not "show a clear penalty against travel agents who book travel this way."
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 10:40 am
We still have stupid laws on our books. I'm sure we're not the lone country in that respect.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 10:42 am
<deleted> double posting
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 10:43 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
We still have stupid laws on our books. I'm sure we're not the lone country in that respect.


Perhaps not, c.i. .

But as said above, even in the coldest times of Cold War ... I, like many other (West-) Germans, visited -for vacations- some "enemy" countries ... (THEY didn't want us in, not the other way round!!)
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 10:45 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
We still have stupid laws on our books. I'm sure we're not the lone country in that respect.


Perhaps not, c.i. .

But as said above, even in the coldest times of Cold War ... I, like many other (West-) Germans, visited -for vacations- some "enemy" countries ...


I may have missed something...what's your point Walt? That because we don't allow every Tom, Dick and Harry to visit Cuba, we are somehow evil?

Can you please tell me what you are getting at?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 11:02 am
McGentrix wrote:


Citizens of Cuba, however, still lack the freedom you now enjoy. That is the point I was making.

McGentrix wrote:

That because we don't allow every Tom, Dick and Harry to visit Cuba, we are somehow evil?



No, of course not: you have all freedom you want.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 11:05 am
McGentrix

Whist Walter is explaining his point, perhaps you could explain for my benefit what it is about Cuba that so annoys the USA.


Its a nice country full of amiable hispanic types who are determined to live their lives their own way. So they follow a communist/socialist doctrine different from the US. Why not? Does the US actually feel threatened by Cuba? Why still these (to my mind) silly restrictions on visiting and doing business with Cuba? I genuinely don't understand. [ok there was the issue of Soviet missiles, but at the same time the Soviet Union was surrounded by American missiles. And they're gone now along with the Soviet Union, so why still the continued animosity towards little Cuba?]
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 11:05 am
Yes -- it's tied (officially) to the US economic embargo. Which is one of the dumber things we've done...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 11:11 am
In Cold War times, we had in Germany the so-called "Hallstein doctrine" :

A basic foreign policy principle of the Government of the Federal Republic of Germany from 1955 to 1969. According to this doctrine, the Federal Republic asserted the exclusive right to represent the entire German nation (Alleinvertretungsanspruch). It did not establish or maintain diplomatic relations with states that recognize the German Democratic Republic (DDR). (Exception: The USSR, as one of the victorious powers of World War II.) The doctrine is applied for the first time against Yugoslavia (1957), followed by Cuba (1963) and Arab countries (1965).

Even at those times, we could go everywhere - I've been in the GDR and East Berlin three times in the above mentioned period (one time with the Conservative Youth Laughing ).
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 11:16 am
Hmm that sounds very suspicious Walter. Conservative Youth was obviously a cover, what were you REALLY doing? lol
0 Replies
 
 

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