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The UN, US and Iraq IV

 
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 03:10 pm
Steve, it seems to me that you believe the soldiers are sent expected to be killed, but I posit that our military tries to supply the troops with training and tools they need to stay alive. And what about the concequences of the troops choices, it is a volunteer military, no one made them join a potentially deadly endeavor.

Of course there was an alternative to war but the alternative was not chosen, so what is your point?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 04:51 pm
An American explains why he's leading the London protest against the U.S. president:
Quote:

source: Expats Against Bush
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 05:01 pm
There are some politicians (and citizens) who believe it is cruel and vain for a politician to attend a funeral of someone they didn't know. It turns a family's final farewell to a loved one into a media orgy.

It destroys the funeral. I believed this through several administrations, regardless of who was President. Of course, there are those who will turn anything Bush does into a negative--but seeing how some are so easily persuaded by the biased opinions forwarded as truth, I thought I'd add this closely held opinion into the mix.

Detractors have spun Bush I and II's belief about the sanctity of family privacy at funerals into a mean spirited lack of compassion, or PR choice. How can that be, when attending a funeral would be so much better for PR?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 05:25 pm
For Sofia:
Bush happy to sacrifice others
Slain soldier's mother critical of Bush

Grieving parent slams White House as unappreciative

By Dick Foster, Rocky Mountain News
November 19, 2003

COLORADO SPRINGS - The grieving mother of a Fort Carson soldier killed in Iraq scolded the Bush administration Tuesday for failing to acknowledge her son's sacrifice and those of other soldiers and their families.

Elaine Johnson, the mother of Spc. Darius T. Jennings, said Bush visited her home state of South Carolina last week as the family prepared to bury Jennings but did not visit her family or acknowledge his death.

"On the Monday before I buried my son, he (Bush) was in Greer, S.C., at the BMW plant," Johnson said after a memorial service at Fort Carson for the 22-year-old husband and soldier from the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment.

No one in the administration traveled to their hometown of Cordova to visit, and no one called or wrote to offer condolences, Johnson said.

"Evidently my son wasn't important enough to him dead for him to visit the family or call the family. As long as my son was alive he was important because he sent him over there to fight a war," she said.

Johnson's discontent was the first such public expression from families of Fort Carson casualties. Most families of the 27 who have died said little about the Bush administration, but they voiced support for the war as necessary to free Iraq from an oppressive dictator and safeguard America from terrorism.

Jennings was one of four Fort Carson soldiers killed in the Nov. 2 crash of a CH-47 Chinook helicopter that was carrying them to the Baghdad airport for two-week rest and recuperation leave.

Johnson said some expression of sympathy was the least the administration could do for families who have given their sons and daughters to the war. She says the administration should send someone to every soldier's funeral.

"I feel a representative of this country should have been here to pay their last respects to my son," she said.

The White House issued a statement Tuesday after Johnson spoke.

"The president has said frequently that we are saddened by the loss of any one of our troops who pay the ultimate sacrifice serving our nation," said White House spokesman Jim Morrell.

"As the president has traveled the country, he has met with families of soldiers who have been killed. The president has said that the loss of life is terrible and it is borne especially by the families left behind," he said.

Johnson has just begun to bear that loss.

"Darius was a fine, respectable, young mama's boy who loved his country and fought for his country," she said.

At Fort Carson's Soldiers' Memorial Chapel, members of Jennings' 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment remembered a skilled, good-spirited young man who always looked out for others in his unit.

He enlisted in 2001 for three years, with hopes of earning money for college, where he hoped to pursue photography.

Soldiers said he was always eager to show his photographs, but his job came first and foremost while he served.

Standing guard at an Iraqi artillery dump one evening, Jennings' squad captured several insurgents who were removing more than 1,000 mortar rounds for use against U.S. troops.

Staff Sgt. Kevin Brown, who was wounded in a grenade attack soon after their unit arrived in Iraq, said Jennings visited him in the hospital and prayed with him.

Capt. James Tayhoff recalled that Jennings would find him early every morning as he drank his first cup of coffee and ask the captain how he was doing.

"One morning I asked him why he always kept finding me in the morning. He said, 'Sir, you've got a lot of stuff to deal with. I just wanted to make sure you were OK.' ''

"What a great kid,'' said Tayhoff.

"It hurts," he said of the loss. "It hurts a lot.''
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 06:04 pm
What is your point Hobit?
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 06:11 pm
Sofia, what if he just telephoned the parents or the surviving spouse and expressed his grief? He doesn't have to make a public display. But I see his attending a funeral or a memorial service quite differently than you do. He sent those soldiers into war; he should grieve each one, and the nation ought to know it, however he sees that we know it.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 06:21 pm
Quote:
Elaine Johnson, the mother of Spc. Darius T. Jennings, said Bush visited her home state of South Carolina last week as the family prepared to bury Jennings but did not visit her family or acknowledge his death.

"On the Monday before I buried my son, he (Bush) was in Greer, S.C., at the BMW plant," Johnson said after a memorial service at Fort Carson for the 22-year-old husband and soldier from the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment.

No one in the administration traveled to their hometown of Cordova to visit, and no one called or wrote to offer condolences, Johnson said.

"Evidently my son wasn't important enough to him dead for him to visit the family or call the family. As long as my son was alive he was important because he sent him over there to fight a war," she said.

Fundraising is so much more important than dead soldiers, isn't it? Mad
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 06:23 pm
hobitbob's point was that he wished to create consternation among anyone who read his post and was so "ignorant" as to think that President Bush was unfeeling with regard to the deaths of servicemen.

What Hobitbob( the America hater who has said many times that he is going to the Czech Republic or to Canada) does not know is that Bush( who is of course incapable of setting up his own foreign policy) is really following the lead of the most brilliant foreign policy analyist of the twentieth century, Bill( I had a cigar here somewhere but forgot where I put it) Clinton.

Hobitbob doesn't know that scumbag Clinton gave the clueless Bush crew the lead they needed with regard to foreign policy.

Below are excerpts from Scumbag Clinton's speech on Dec. 16th 1998 which just coincidentally happened to be given while the House was pondering impeachment for him.

Clinton said:

"The decision to use force is never cost-free. Whenever American forces are placed in harm's way, we risk the loss of life. And while our strikes are focused on Iraq's military capabilities, there will be unintened Iraqi casualties"

I wonder if Elaine Johnson, the mother of Darius Jennings, ever read that speech>

and Clinton also gave the clueless Bush team the following information( Clinton was really the smartest of all of the twentieth century presidents)

quote

"I have ordered a strong, sustained series of air strikes against Iraq...designed to degrade Saddam's capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction."

(Imagine that- Scumbag Clinton, the foreign policy wonk telling the American people that Saddam had the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction. Why, one would think that Scumbag Clinton was a war monger!!!
I remember clearly that when his butt was on the line while he was a Student???(he rarely went to classes) at Oxford, he was one of the leaders in the Anti-war campaigns)

Scumbag Clinton also said in the December speech-

"So we will pursue a long-term strategy to contain Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction and work toward the day when Iraq has a government worthy of its people"

(It almost sounds as if Bill Clinton thought Iraq had WMDS???? Could that be???? and what about the "working toward the day when Iraq has a government worthy of its people"

I don't think that Hobitbob knows about this speech. Someone told me he was on a vacation in Lybia when this speech was given.
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 06:30 pm
nimh must realize that even a "rag" like the Guardian can't indule in a self-evident lie.

I am sure that Nimh knows that the Guardian is a left wing newspaper.

I know that Nimh is writing from the never never land in the Netherlands, but with the Internet, papers like the New York Times and the Washington Post are indeed available.

British newspapers controlled by the Labor party are almost as shameless as Pravda.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 06:44 pm
Italgato wrote:
hobitbob's point was that he wished to create consternation among anyone who read his post and was so "ignorant" as to think that President Bush was unfeeling with regard to the deaths of servicemen.

Hobbitbob's point was that Bush seems to find campaigning and fundraising more important thatn dead soldiers (except for the ones in his trash!).

Quote:
What Hobitbob( the America hater who has said many times that he is going to the Czech Republic or to Canada)

Hate America? no. Massively dissapointed in its government? yes. Sad


Quote:
does not know is that Bush( who is of course incapable of setting up his own foreign policy) is really following the lead of the most brilliant foreign policy analyist of the twentieth century, Bill( I had a cigar here somewhere but forgot where I put it) Clinton.

A) the best foreign policy president was probably either Nixon or Eisenhower.
B) Your jealousy of the fact Clinton got laid frequently is amusing! Very Happy


Quote:
Hobitbob doesn't know that scumbag Clinton gave the clueless Bush crew the lead they needed with regard to foreign policy.

Too true. If Clinton hadn't worked so hard to work with other nations, Bush would not have had to screw it up.

Quote:
Below are excerpts from Scumbag Clinton's speech on Dec. 16th 1998 which just coincidentally happened to be given while the House was pondering impeachment for him.

Clinton said:

"The decision to use force is never cost-free. Whenever American forces are placed in harm's way, we risk the loss of life. And while our strikes are focused on Iraq's military capabilities, there will be unintened Iraqi casualties"

And I thought at the time (and still do)_ that the bombing was to pull attention away from the fact that he was playing "splooshy" with Monica.

Quote:
I wonder if Elaine Johnson, the mother of Darius Jennings, ever read that speech>

I don't know. Do you?

Quote:
and Clinton also gave the clueless Bush team the following information( Clinton was really the smartest of all of the twentieth century presidents)

He might have been. Either he or Hoover.

Quote:

"I have ordered a strong, sustained series of air strikes against Iraq...designed to degrade Saddam's capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction."

(Imagine that- Scumbag Clinton, the foreign policy wonk telling the American people that Saddam had the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction. Why, one would think that Scumbag Clinton was a war monger!!!

Yes, one does.

Quote:
I remember clearly that when his butt was on the line while he was a Student???(he rarely went to classes) at Oxford, he was one of the leaders in the Anti-war campaigns)

I have a lot more respect for Clinton's actions that Bush, who had his father buy him an ANG commision, and then never showed up.

Quote:
Scumbag Clinton also said in the December speech-

"So we will pursue a long-term strategy to contain Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction and work toward the day when Iraq has a government worthy of its people"

(It almost sounds as if Bill Clinton thought Iraq had WMDS???? Could that be???? and what about the "working toward the day when Iraq has a government worthy of its people"

What part of "containment" is difficult for you to comprehend?

Quote:
I don't think that Hobitbob knows about this speech. Someone told me he was on a vacation in Lybia when this speech was given.

Hobbitbob's guard unit was put on alert at this time. I appreciate your concern about the fact I haven't been to Lybia since I was 4. I do really hope to see it again! Perhaps someday a vacation there will be possible. I am dissapointed that you are incapable of discussion and resort to cheap shot personal attacks. One would think your "vacation" would have fixed that aspect.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 06:53 pm
Italgato wrote:
I am sure that Nimh knows that the Guardian is a left wing newspaper.

I know that Nimh is writing from the never never land in the Netherlands, but with the Internet, papers like the New York Times and the Washington Post are indeed available.

British newspapers controlled by the Labor party are almost as shameless as Pravda.


Nonsense, and you're talking with someone here who actually had to read Pravda in the past - in the original Russian. :-(

Yes, the Guardian is a left-wing newspaper. So is the Independent, though slightly less so, while The Times is a right-wing newspaper and the Daily Telegraph is rabidly right-wing. And? I do find it kinda annoying that British newspapers - in marked contrast with the BBC - are so partisan, in comparison with German, Dutch or Belgian ones - it's true. You either get the view from the left or the view from the right, but never really one that you dont feel you have to doublecheck. But "shameless"? "Pravda"? Comparable to the "Pro-Nazi" newspapers of old?

You even contradict yourself. First we have to believe the Guardian is an anti-war propaganda rag, then its "controlled by the Labor party". Didn't you notice that it's a Labour Party government and PM that's waging the war, on behalf of Britain? If the Labour party would really "control" the Guardian it wouldnt be anti-war, now, would it?
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 07:32 pm
Quote:
What part of "containment" is difficult for you to comprehend?


LOL, hobitbob.

But can't you guys get "Libya" right?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 08:11 pm
Sometimes my mis-spellings are to serve a point! Wink
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 08:15 pm
Here you go nimh .... click me
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 08:17 pm
Ahhh - no - thanks. Its true, I'm always looking for new news sources, but I've had my fill of Pravda, thank you very much.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 09:09 pm
How do you spell globalization?

Quote:
Dems Will Win (210 posts) Sat Nov-15-03 01:45 PM
Original message
DU SCOOP! (must read) $28 Million to get DRAFT READY BY JUNE 15, 2005!!
Edited on Sat Nov-15-03 02:03 PM by Dems Will Win


Oh, so there are "no plans" to re-instate the draft? No, there are just EXERCISES and $28 million extra to get the whole Selective Service ready and open for business by June 15, 2005!!

Read this official budget carefully and you will see that Bush is gearing up the draft--there is no longer any doubt about it. Selective Service must report to Bush on March 31, 2005, that the system is ready for activation within 75 days. So on June 15, 2005, expect the announcement that the first draft lottery since Vietnam will be held for 20 year-olds.

Here is where the DU rubber hits the road, my friends. This is a DU EXCLUSIVE as far as I know, so please read this one carefully and let me know what we are going to do about it. To put this all into context, the SSS has lain basically dormant for decades and now in the 2004 budget, Bush has added $28 million to get the whole thing ready to fly in 2005. The 4 performance goals below basically make the system ready for activation.

http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html

<snip>

This FY 2004 APP identifies the activities and strategies that will take place during the
fiscal year to achieve Agency goals and objectives. It also identifies relevant performance
measurement target goals to be achieved. The performance goals for FY 2004 are:

1. Develop an Area Office Prototype Exercise that will test the Health
Care Personnel Delivery System (HCPDS) work flows and support
programs.

2. Redefine Agency infrastructure based on a Quinquennial Workload
Study.

3. Prepare and conduct an Area Office Prototype Exercise which tests
the activation process from SSS Lottery input to the issuance of the
first Armed Forces Examination Orders.

4. Ensure 90% of people tested are capable of implementing activation
procedures.

5. Ensure that 95% of the predefined readiness objectives are attained
and validated during an Area Office Prototype Exercise.

6. Train 90% of assigned State Directors (SDs) and Reserve Force
Officers (RFOs) on HCPDS and Timed-Phased Response (TPR)
functions and responsibilities.

7. Attain a 92% or greater compliance rate for men 18 through 25 years
old.

8. Attain and appoint Registrars in 85% of the Nation's high schools.

9. Obtain 75% of all registrations electronically.

10. Maintain an average systems change request implementation time of
39 days.

11. Maintain a functional proponent and customer satisfaction level of
87%.

12. Have a telephone call completion rate of 93% or higher.

13. Answer correspondence in less than 10 days.

14. Train 90% of assigned SDs and RFOs on Alternative Service plans
and procedures.

ANNUAL PERFORMANCE REPORT

An annual report providing the results of the implementation of these performance
measures will be submitted by March 31, 2005. This report will address attained versus
planned levels of performance, explain unattained target levels, and identify where and
how strategies, performance goals, and performance indicators should be changed to
ensure that the SSS reaches its strategic and annual goals and objectives.


<snip>

VOTE FOR BUSH IN 2004, BE DRAFTED IN 2005!!

edited to correct 2003 to 2005.


SOURCE
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 09:25 pm
Gel, in case you haven't noticed there is a war on terror that isn't going to be over soon, better to be prepared for what may come than sit idle. I know you don't like reality, too bad. I registered for the draft when I turned eighteen, that's how it goes sometimes.
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 09:35 pm
Gelisgesti is absolutely correct. President Bush is gearing up to reinstate the draft. But he is not an honest man like President Bill Clinton was. No. He is doing it on the sneak.

And how will he get the Senate and the House to go along?

You know that they have to pass the legislation.

easy.

He is going to take half of the Trillions of dollars that Halliburton is making in Iraq and bribe the Senators.

LOL LOL

LOL
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 09:40 pm
I did not mean to denigrate Lybia, Hobitbob. Please forgive me. I know that Lybia is really one of the cradles of civilization. and, you are correct. You have me cold. The reason I am so critical of Clinton is because he got laid so often.

I do apologize, apologize, apologize, apologize.

By the way were you in Lybia with your mother and father or just a tourist?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 09:43 pm
gels, Isn't GW jumping the gun a bit? Reinstating the draft in 2005 is a bit premature isn't it?
0 Replies
 
 

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