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The UN, US and Iraq IV

 
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 08:53 am
btw, what I meant about subtle game is that Saddam (for it is he) is attempting to expose the superficial/official justifications for the war as a sham.

1. It wasn't WMD
2. It wasn't revenge for 9/11
3. It wasn't building a new democratic Iraq.

He's leaving the American people to come to their own conclusions and feel guilty about it.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 10:16 am
That pretty much wraps it up; the cause and effect have no relationship - what-so-ever.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 12:30 pm
Edit (moderator): Ridiculously enourmous text removed. Link to it instead.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 12:42 pm
I didn't bookmark it. It was the First draft of the Afghanistan Constitution ....

My bookmark file is too big as it is. I'll try to track it down in my history file. I think It was in Mozilla .... I have too many tabs open.
Sorry!
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 01:24 pm
From Perc's ABC News article, I extract a few things by way of providing a somewhat different focus, which focus is the basis for the conclusions I draw:

Security


Quote:
U.S. to Speed Up Training for Iraqi Security Forces

By Richard C. Paddock
Times Staff Writer

November 2, 2003


he U.S.-led coalition will accelerate the training of Iraqi security forces to help combat an increasing number of attacks targeting police and civilians, Coalition Provisional Authority head L. Paul Bremer III said Saturday ... By next September, more than 200,000 Iraqis will be serving as police officers, soldiers and border guards, if Congress approves funds sought by President Bush, Bremer said ...

... Bremer insisted that the most important element of the coalition's approach to security was to encourage Iraqis to play a greater role. When he took over in May, he noted, there were no Iraqi police officers on the streets. Now there are 50,000, he said. The coalition has also reopened 150 prisons and more than 300 courts shut by the war, he said ...

... After the car bombings Monday, rumors had spread throughout the city that terrorists would launch more attacks this weekend. The threats were supposedly contained in leaflets distributed around the capital, but no one interviewed had actually seen the handbills.

The threats were widely reported on Arab TV stations, and some Iraqis began calling the day "Bloody Saturday." At Baghdad University, only half the students showed up for class, officials said. Shops and government offices appeared unaffected, and the streets were filled with traffic as usual.

Some high school and elementary school students feared that their schools would be singled out because they had received assistance or supplies from American agencies.

"We heard that my school would be the first to be attacked," said Ahmed Mahdi, 15, whose high school was shut down for the day. "I'm afraid of what will happen in the coming days. I don't like it. I prefer to be in school."

Many teachers were frustrated by parents' willingness to believe the reports. They urged the public not to panic and called on officials to issue a statement reassuring parents that the rumors were unfounded.

"There is one thing I am certain of," said Samia Abdul-Kadum, a high school English teacher. "There are certain groups that want Iraq to be backward. I advise the parents to send their kids to school because there is no serious threat."

By midnight, no attack had materialized.



Healthcare
Quote:
... The silver linings here are that the situation in parts of the country has improved in the last two months or so, and Iraqis have taken notice.

Hospitals are receiving large-scale outlays from the CPA. Also, many Iraqis report that the once-compulsory bribe to a doctor or hospital official is no longer necessary.

and from the same article, as usual, buried as the last paragraph, is a key observation:

Quote:
"The Americans haven't solved that many problems for Iraqis," says Dr. Richard Garfield, who conducted on-site surveys of health care in Iraq this summer. "But they've created the environment for Iraqis to help themselves."


Public Health Spending

Current: $422 million spent in 2003
Prewar: $16 million spent in 2002

(Source: CPA)


Education
Quote:
Back to School
Iraq's Education System Enters a New Era



N
Northern Iraq: Better
Central Iraq: Better
Southern Iraq: Better



Few schools were damaged in the fighting, and prewar disrepair is being addressed. Schools appear to be in better condition than they were before the war.

According to Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) officials, $63 million has been spent to improve Iraq's schools. Students are receiving supplies they did not have before, and attendance within the first month of classes appears to match prewar levels.


Electricity
Quote:
Northern Iraq: Better
Central Iraq: Worse
Southern Iraq: Better



Our surveys on electricity matched what the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) is reporting: improvements in most of the country, except central Iraq. More areas of the country have electricity, and overall production has exceeded prewar levels.


Water Supply

Quote:
Northern Iraq: Same
Central Iraq: Same or Worse
Southern Iraq: Same or Worse


Before the war, poor water quality was the leading cause of disease among children and hospitalization in Iraq, and this remains true today.

Starting from primitive and neglected prewar facillities, the Iraqi water system suffered damage, largely unrepaired, in the '91 war, and suffered additional, though lesser, damage during Iraqi Freedom, exacerbated by looting and further negatively impacted by electrical difficulties. While "Same" and "Same or Worse" are not "Better", they are not "Worse", and restoration of Iraq's water supply is a key component of the CPA's reconstruction efforts.

Paramount in all of the Contemporary Iraqi Condition is the issue of security. The ongoing, and accellerating, expansion of native Iraqi security forces is to be expected to have beneficial result.

The ills of over 30 years of tyranical, brutal, despotic abuse of a people cannot be undone in a few months. And no one can simply hand a ravaged and long-oppressed nation an instant utopia. What the US and Coalition Partners can do, and are doing, is provide the people of that nation with the opportunity and means to permit their own rebuilding of their own society. We cannot do it for them. We can and will see to it the conditions exist to permit them to do it.

In conclusion, I quote the final sentence (again, a heartening observation buried at the bottom of a not-exactly-glowing editorial opinion piece disguised as "News") of the cover article:

Quote:
While many Iraqis surveyed complained about a deterioration in nearly every criteria on our list, many of those same people said they were hopeful, even optimistic, for the future.

It's their future to build. At least now, the have a future.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 01:41 pm
Moderator wrote wrote:
Edit (moderator): Ridiculously enourmous text removed. Link to it instead.
Quote:
didn't bookmark it. It was the First draft of the Afghanistan Constitution ....

My bookmark file is too big as it is. I'll try to track it down in my history file. I think It was in Mozilla .... I have too many tabs open.
Sorry!


I can't find it ..... What was so interesting were the religious concessions that were allowed .... I am sure they will be cut from the final. If I stumble over it again I'll post it.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 01:43 pm
Gel, ya might wanna take a look at Tiny URL
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 01:43 pm
Gel,

Press "History" then use the history search option to locate it.

That was easily the record for the largest post. It was so big that the limit the forum software ran into was the limitation of the database! It wasn't even the whole thing anyway.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 01:52 pm
Craven de Kere wrote:
Gel,

Press "History" then use the history search option to locate it.

That was easily the record for the largest post. It was so big that the limit the forum software ran into was the limitation of the database! It wasn't even the whole thing anyway.


I know that ... when I saw how big it was I hit edit but when the edit screen came up all that was left was the moderator verbage .... your 'notify moderator' script works well.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 02:05 pm
Got it ..... I'm really not that ditzy :^)
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 02:07 pm
Is This:


Quote:
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/printer_friendly/news_logo.gif

Afghans to have Islamic republic

A draft Afghan constitution has been unveiled, setting out a new political system and defining Islam's role in the country.
It calls for the creation of an Islamic republic, with a presidential system, and where citizens have equal rights .. .

something along the lines of what you want, Gel?
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 02:23 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Is This:


Quote:
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/printer_friendly/news_logo.gif

Afghans to have Islamic republic

A draft Afghan constitution has been unveiled, setting out a new political system and defining Islam's role in the country.
It calls for the creation of an Islamic republic, with a presidential system, and where citizens have equal rights .. .



something along the lines of what you want, Gel?


Nope, look at the post above you and click on the blue 'got it' ...
It is the actual document.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 02:40 pm
Ahhh ... OK, the Global Security dot Org Word Document of the draft ... yeah, 43 pages with lots of formatting, that's pretty big. Definitely a good find, though, thanks. I've saved it for later more careful study.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 07:28 pm
U.S., U.N. AND IRAQ
'We need to find ways to make sure we're winning the battle of ideas and that we're reducing the number of terrorists...that are being taught to go out and murder and kill innocent men, women and children,' he (secretary rumsfeld) said. http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,218134,00.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the above is a quote attributed to secretary rumsfeld. here is finally something i can agree on ! you can't kill all the terrorists because more and more come out of the woodwork every day. i believe only by convincing people that you have something BETTER to offer can you prevent them from becoming terrorists. and you better deliver the goods : better education, better living conditions, food, medical aid and finally, freedom of thought ! hungry or starving people will not often respond to a message of freedom alone; you have to be able to fill their bellies(sorry for being a bit blant and crude!). hbg
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 07:39 pm
timberlandko wrote:
From Perc's ABC News article, I extract a few things by way of providing a somewhat different focus, which focus is the basis for the conclusions I draw:


That wasn't Perc's cite.

This is the sort of the thing that, to my way of thinking, calls into question all of your other analyses.

Extracting from a balanced news report only that which supports your opinion is called bias, but in your case it's probably more accurately called 'extreme prejudice'.

(For those of you who wish to read the article without timber's input, click on the link provided.)
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pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 07:41 pm
More Prisons
"The coalition has also reopened 150 prisons and more than 300 courts shut by the war, he said ... "

Yeah, they are going to need a whole lot more prisons.

The US is making plans to exit. After that, I suspect that the country will go into civil war and be three countries. The North will be where most of the Multi-Nationals will do business. Isn't that where most of the larger oil fields are?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 08:23 pm
My apologies, PDiddie ... inadvertant, to be sure. I was careless in the attributiion. Hope both you and Perc forgive me. I was workin' on a cople different posts more or less at the same time, and screwed up. You're always welcome to call anything of mine to question; you know that.

What I "Extracted" from the piece were factual stements of observed conditions. I offered commentary of different perspective. I don't consider that "Bias". It merely points out my opinion that the issues addressed in the article, very valid issues, are being addressed energetically by The CPA. I understand that the rate of progress leaves many unsatisfied, but I note, as the article confirms, that amelliorative measures are being taken in the face of difficult physical, financial and political obstacles and recurring violence. I sure as hell wouldn't want the job. There is no question that the situation in Iraq is deplorable. I do not question that time will bring the Iraqis much less room for justifiable complaint.

Now, composing a few posts in Notepad, with inattentive editing, then hastilly copy-and-pasting into QuickReply into different threads as I think are where I intended the reply to go, and that it's addressed to the right member, without makin' absolutely sure before hitting "Submit" ... that I'm guilty of ... often Laughing
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jordan capri
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 08:29 pm
Hmmm me thinks Timber is a racist!!
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 08:35 pm
GW is a 10 yr. old...
with average IQ. His daddy probably warned him about Iraq but shrubby didn't listen.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1103-13.htm
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 08:41 pm
You got some kind of reasoning to accompany that statement, jordan capri, or did that just kind of sound good?
0 Replies
 
 

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