0
   

The UN, US and Iraq IV

 
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 05:53 am
Setanta is right. There are those in America who are not content with waiting for Armageddon. They want, they feel it is their mission, to bring on the end of the world. I've been in their churchs in Oklahoma, Arkansas and Texas. Happier people you have not met. They get real joy out of knowing that if they can Maranatha their way to the Rapture now, they will have somehow done God's work and will.
I used to think they were harmless nuts too, recent events (think Oklahoma City) and the emergence of more vocal religious extremists, (Ashcroft, Armey, Delay) have changed my mind.

And before one dismisses this out of hand, think a minute about what the extremists' object is and whether or not they have gathered enough power to attempt to achieve it. They want to bring us all to Jesus whether we want to go or not.

~See you on the other side ~

holy Joe
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 06:37 am
timberlandko wrote:
Quote:
Iraq non-U.S. pledges seen at $18 bln -sources
Reuters, 10.24.03, 9:34 AM ET


MADRID, Oct 24 (Reuters) - Donors will pledge a total of $18 billion to help finance the reconstuction of Iraq, in addition to $20 billion of promised U.S. money, sources familiar with the pledging process told Reuters on Friday.Reuters, from Forbes



And the pledge-a-thon continues.

Quote:
Toronto Star
Rebuilding pledges lean heavily on loans
Countries offer $13 billion for reconstruction



And because Iraq will not be in a position to use the loans and other tied contributions for at least a year ...
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 06:47 am
The poster boy of cults

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:Vy5kLHbTWwgC:www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~remoore/jonestown/images/photo20.jpg

'''Story'''
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 06:52 am
Please, D, I haven't eaten breakfast yet.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 07:00 am
Sad
sorry
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 07:47 am
Serious question:
Forget about political considerations and concentrate on what is really near and dear. We are all Americans, all have hopes and dreams that are vested in our homeland .... or we would not be here. When you espouse a dream, that dream can be shared and for the most part realized.
Enter the politician ...... For whatever reason a political view requires, always requires, an interpreter to explain your dream to you and in varying degrees transform the heart felt into your 'ideology'. A homogenization of all our dreams and hopes is then returned to us in the form of 'Democracy.'

This is my simplistic view of 'Democracy'
How do you explain to a country like Iraq or Afghanistan this concept and why should the transformation involve such carnage?

Once the earth is , homogenized, we can not go back, there will be no plateau, no humanity.
Are we so wise that we can guide humanity?

My question:
Why should 'Democracy' be the only choice in Iraq. Why shouldn't they have a theocracy if that is their choice?
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 10:05 am
Sofia,

This is not the thread for much of this, but I recognize that you, george and Timber, like so many reasonable, thinking conservatives find it difficult to take the threat of the extremist religious right wing seriously. And as Setanta says, I suspect that's because you have rarely been exposed to this element. You may know of them, but you very easily dismiss the danger as insignificant. I'll give you some references here and a short quotation which includes a few statistics.


Quote:
Christian Right media is extensive and reflects a large subculture in our society. For example, televangelist Jerry Falwell periodically sends material to 162,000 conservative pastors and churches through Pastor's Policy Briefings. In late 1998, he solicited funds to expand in order to "[A]lert, educate and rally America's 200,000 conservative pastors who collectively speak to 50-60 million persons each week." Moreover Falwell is just one of many national Christian Right leaders seeking to mobilize evangelicals and fundamentalists to engage in conservative political action. In January 1999 Pat Robertson's "700 Club" TV program featured a special week-long series of reports on "Americas's Moral Crisis." Evidence of America's moral decline included abortion, euthanasia, homosexuality, and "America's obsession with sex." Viewers with concern about the moral crisis were urged to call the National Counseling Center, part of the Christian Broadcasting Network Ministry. According to the "700 Club," the Center logged 5,000 calls per day. Studies show members of some Christian Right activist groups, such as Focus on the Family and Concerned Women for America, share three related attributes; they are much more likely than the general population to:

Depend on religious television, radio, magazines, and direct mail as important sources of information.

Vote in primary and general elections

Believe that most political issues have "one correct Christian view" that shouldn't be compromised.


http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v13n1/PE_V13_N1.pdf

These figures come from an article in The Public Eye Newsletter in 1999, so the numbers are old. But the numbers have not decreased over the last four years, but rather multiplied. And the idea that Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson or Ralph Reed are no longer powerful is simply an illusion created in order to decrease the alarm factor that resulted when they addressed the Republican Convention in 1992, exposing the American public to the fanatical ideas they promote.

It seems that many people who come from home situations in which they were not exposed to these fanatical types find it hard to take this warning seriously. Even many of my Democratic friends say, "poo poo" when I first begin talking to them. It's hard to believe that such madness could be taking control of our government. But it's true.

For more on this subject, I'll be posting on this thread:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13977&start=30

And here is another reference to look at:

"The Rise of the Religious Right in the Republican Party," on a web site produced by TheocracyWatch, a project of the Center for Religion, Ethics, and Social Policy at Cornell University.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 10:11 am
It seems to me Lola that the key to why the religious right is more dangerous than most other things in our political spectrum is that it is absolutist, will not share power, gets its orders not from the people but from "god." There is nothing else out there like it, no political group size whose main principle is to end power-sharing, dump the Constitution, etc.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 11:48 am
I think you've hit the nail on the head, Tart. But my main beef with these types is that they are successfully furthering an agenda about which they are not honest. They are sneaking into power. And they don't have far to make it complete. They own the Congress, the White House and now, with this election, they will own the courts as well. Ant then we're all in for a 50 year (at least) horror story ride. They purposely hide their intentions to put their God into the seat of power. Their definition of God would make reasonable, thinking folks' neck hairs stand at attention. I encourage anyone who doesn't believe the threat is real to read more outside their usual boundaries. While they have been guided by Karl Rove and others to lay low in terms of major media attention, they make no pretense about their intentions and you can read about it easily anywhere on the internet.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 12:02 pm
Fair enough, Gelisgesti. If they chose theocracy, that is their choice, which is close enough to democracy to suit me, but I am not willing to concede that their former police state was a free choice by any definition of majority vote. Can I be assured that a theocracy is not chosen in exactly the same manner as government by Saddam Hussein?
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 01:17 pm
Hi Roger, I agree ... my point was that in no way should whatever is chosen be our choice.
Diversity is essential ... who is to choose the uncommon path?
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 01:20 pm
Quote:



http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 01:45 pm
Love your GWB quote -- let's face it, if he started thinking about himself, he'd be bored to tears.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 03:50 pm
Tartarin wrote:
Brain drain -- result of having a young puppy in the house. Where in the past 24 hours did I read the wonderfully funny account of Donald Evans' "flight" with "GW"? Was it in the NYRB? Was it in these pages? Bush scared to death, incompetent, on his last flight?


I posted it in the "Let's talk about replacing..." thread.

Bush gives accounts that can't be verified or simply says something on the order of 'I cannot recall' (precisely, he said: "That's all been vetted...") when asked where is was during most of the calendar year 1972.

Do you remember where you were in 1972?
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 04:50 pm
Uhh... I uh... let's see.... oh yes... uh...

Where were you, PDiddie?

I think that Donald Evans story should be posted continually, just as a reminder.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 05:31 pm
Tartarin wrote:
Where were you, PDiddie?


Been busy.

Spent most of the past hour reading.

Some of the best postings ever have been going in here lately.

Commendable, each and all.
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 06:20 pm
Ge, I've been busy today and haven't had time to answer your question about democracy in Iraq, or a theocracy, etc. I will be back to comment later.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 06:29 pm
I was graduating from SMU in 1972 and then moved to New York City to begin at Columbia University School of Social Work School. Very good times. The next year, Nixon resigned and we all celebrated. I wonder why GW can't remember. Hummmm......
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 07:35 pm
Joe -- I've been told by a member of the Great Life Church here that I will definitely be left behind. Permanently.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2003 08:18 pm
Tar: and I'll bet whoever it was was smiling when they told you.

We do not realize, here in these United States, what danger is poised by those who would sacrifice anything, their children, their spouses, themselves, ourselves, so that the endtimes can begin. We look at the Middle East and point in horror at the suicide bomber, the fanatical men whipping themselves, the deeply religious imans intoning "death to America" yet fail to see to the fanatic sitting on the school board or applying to become the chairperson of the Water Safety Adminstration or, more recently, submitted to Congress as a judicial nominee.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 08/03/2025 at 07:18:24